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I was going to say, my '21 MT-09 is more than happy to lift the front wheel up in LIF mode 2. Like psycoreefer said, you're probably in drive mode 4 or you need to see your mechanic.
I have it in D-Mode 1. Also tried LIF-Off and even had TCS-Mode Off.
The manual on page 5-9 says: "When "TCS-MODE" has been set to "OFF", the TCS, SCS and LIF systems are turned off together".

If there are any settings you recommend, I'd be happy to try them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
Probably not what you want to hear, but at this point it isn't any setting on your bike. I'd recommend going back to at least TCS-mode 1, preferably 2 if you're still learning how to control your bike. Better to be alive tomorrow with a working bike than have either of those taken away because the rider aides were turned off. You can still get the front wheel to climb in either TCS mode, just with less gusto than a pro can without it.

My plan to test the wheelie capability and lift control looks something like this:
  1. Find a mile+ long empty, straight, flat road.
  2. Setup a video camera to record throttle hand, speedo, and forward view. Set LIF control to 2.
  3. With a rolling start get bike into second gear and at around 3.5k to 4k RPM roll on the throttle as if I'm overtaking a car.
  4. Turn around, get back into second and roll on the throttle a little (~5%) quicker than my normal overtake speed.
  5. Repeat step 4 until I'm completely comfortable with that speed.
  6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 with another 5% quicker roll on until I consistently and reliably feel the front wheel lift up momentarily from muscle memory.
  7. Check video footage to see how quickly I open up the throttle and how far.
  8. Go home.
  9. Another day go back out and repeat everything until I'm back to where I was after step 6.
  10. Start taking passes by adding more throttle at same "roll on speed". Looking to test sustainability/duration of wheelie, not height. If I can get the wheel to stay lofted at least 2-3 seconds I'll be very happy, even if it's half an inch off the ground.
  11. Set LIF control to 1. Repeat steps 9 and 10.
  12. Consult memory and video to determine difference between LIF 2 and 1.
  13. Go home.
  14. Set LIF to 2.
  15. Repeat step 9.
  16. Start taking passes with small, incrementally faster roll ons (going for height). Stop when I get to ~1 ft off the ground or whenever I stop feeling safe, whichever comes first.
  17. Set LIF to 1
  18. Repeat steps 15 and 16
  19. Repeat 12
  20. Go home.

If I can manage all that then it's only a matter of combining the two. This might be a bit overly methodical and some might say too cautious, but I prefer to keep both myself and the bike from needing any preventable repairs. That and I want to be very confident in my muscle memory should I ever decide to pull a wheelie on a non-empty road. If I'm going to put others lives at increased risk I better be damn sure it's as small as possible.
 

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2021 MT-09 - Even with the LIF turned off, it is virtually impossible to get the front wheel off the ground. I have tried all the settings and no wheelie. I miss that compared to my FZ-07. In the settings It can be tuned off but it seems that it is not really off. Disappointing!
Hmmm, havent ridden a 21 09 yet, but the 7 wheelies pretty easy b/c it has good low down torque, short wheelbase, funky weight distribution (not enough up front), and shitty suspension dampened with agua lol
My first gen 9 stock was the same way, always wanted to wheelie getting on the gas hard. But when I put in a penske shock, jacked up the rear end and dropped the front a few mm, instead of feeling the rear squat and front come up, the whole bike just goes forward. The front will lift maybe just a few inches, but that's it.
The 21 has more weight over the front end and a lower sttering head over previous gens, so everything else being the same that would make it want to wheelie a little less.

But yeah, if the thing wont go up even dumping the clutch theres something wrong.
 

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I'm admittedly a wheelie newbie and just started playing with beginner wheelies on my '21 09 and so far here are my observations (power wheelies only):

Driver mode 1
TCS: 1
SCS: 2
LIF: 1
It comes up in 1st gear once I hit the power band and I take it close to redline but when I QS into 2nd it drops back down.

Driver mode 2
TCS: 1
SCS: 2
LIF: 1
Same as above but it's slightly harder to get it up (that's what she said)

Driver mode 2
TCS: 1
SCS: 2
LIF: Off
I could loop it easily if I'm not careful. Again, I'm a rookie with wheelies so I'm just slowly easing into it but dank nooners is my goal.
 

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Lift control 1 is absolutely superb. Perfect for someone just starting out trying to wheelie off the clutch in 1st gear. You can be really aggressive with it and it will bring the wheel up a fair amount and it won't slam you down, it let's you hold it there too. Its still a long way from the balance point but still a good 2-3ft off the floor.

I'm not an expert but I'd suggest starting to learn in 1st gear with lift control set to 1. Do this for a while until you've honed the timing and the feeling of getting it up. Once you're doing that consistently and more importantly smoothly, change the method to 2nd gear wheelies. Once you've practiced these for a while turn Lift control off altogether. I know a lot of people say only do them in 2nd when you're learning, but I found you're wasting too much time with 2nd gear because its a lot harder to get it up. Atleast with 1st you're getting it up a lot more which gives you more experience quicker and lets you learn faster.

Once you've got the hang of the timing it only gets easier and easier.
 

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I've had a 2021 SP for a week & had a good read & play with the various modes & settings & think i know how it all works.

The 2021 MT's have a lot of rider aid differences than the older models so none of the following applies if your not 2021.

That 6 axis IMU is very clever, it knows the bikes exact position in regards to its situation, it knows the angle of lean, whether your going up or down, left to right, slowing or accelerating, speed, everything.

The bike will safely wheelie for you if you have the LIF mode switched on, once you've pulled away in 1st gear simply open the throttle flat out & the wheel will come up to a given height & not flip over, the IMU will know your doing a wheelie & will not let the engine rev too much so that the bike flips. You can keep the wheelie going like a pro, use the quick shifter to change gear with the throttle fully open & the wheel will stay airborne until you run out of power then the wheel will come down.

The ICU will cut the fuelling even though you've got the throttle wide open, it knows exactly what the bike is doing & it will supply just enough fuel to keep your wheel in the air but not flip you over. It's all very smooth, no jerkiness, no hard drop when the wheel eventually comes down, i love it. With practice you will be able to do stunning wheelies if thats your thing all in safety - Amazing eh, you've got to try it out.

I had a little play & nearly shat myself, i used mode 1 all TCS off & accelerated from standstill as fast as i dare. It goes berserk, don't try it with no TCS unless your familiar with high power & torque or a pro stunt rider. I'd gotten myself ready, shifted forward & lent over the handle bars, braced myself & let rip. My foot came off the footrest & i thought i was in the shite, luckily i got away with it but i needed a smoke - i nearly crashed my brand new bike.

I tried it in mode 1 TCS level 2 & let rip again, it shot off & the wheel came up about 2ft, it felt like i was vertical but i wasn't. Throttle wide open all the way, wheel hovering about 2ft using the quick shifter throttle fully open & she just stayed at the same height until about 80.

I guess that TCS set at level 1 would maybe let the wheel come up about 3ft, level 2 about 2ft & level 3 maybe a 1ft or sort of hop skipping the tarmac. Try TCS switched to 'off' at your peril.

With the new 2021 electronics safety suite & the 4 different modes there's quite a lot of different parameters you can play with & customise, i'm still trying stuff out.

Here's a sort of example. Modes 1,2,3 all produce the same power but deliver it at a slower rate, you'll get to a 100 quicker in mode 1, than in mode 2 & mode 3 even longer but all 3 modes will get you to a 100. Mode 4 is different, it actually cuts the engines power whereas the other 3 modes don't. Instead of reaching a 100, it'll only reach 70 & get there slowly as well.

Mode 4 is rather nice, i gave it a little try out the other day up a narrow single track country road with gravel everywhere & moss growing down the middle & a few puddles & generally a crap road surface so a bit technical if you like on a powerful bike. It's very good, no risk of wheel spin, nice smooth throttle, no jerkiness, coupled with the ABS your chances of slipping off due to rider error are almost zero. It's a good mode for riding around town as well. Every time the TCS or ABS kicks in a little light blinks on the dashboard so you can see when you've been 'saved' When i gained confidence in this electronic trickery i pushed it a little bit, it really works & works well, i'm amazed to be honest, this sort of wizardry will deffo save lives & less accidents.

I've come off my bikes about a dozen times on the road in 40 tears of riding, I've never been knocked off or collided with a car, touch wood. My 'offs' have been mostly all my fault, too fast into a corner, doing a wheelie & coming off the back, hitting the brakes hard & losing the wheel.

One of the most frightening situations is when a bend tightens up or you've gone in too fast or got the wrong line & your drifting into the oncoming traffic...nasty. You daren't brake hard, your scared to brake, you can't lean over anymore & you panic.....Now we have brake control hence BC1 & BC2 all on our IMU electronics safety package. Previously ABS on bikes would only work when braking in a straight line. Thanks to the IMU & it's 6 axis computing skills it can now detect the precise angle/speed etc your leaning over at & you can now brake without fear of skidding or locking a wheel up. The BC2 working with the traction control TC in theory means that you should be able to just hit the brakes & it won't slide or lock up a wheel. It could save your ass.

Still lots to learn. I've never had ABS on a bike before never mind all this microchip wizardry. What will they think of next eh.

Toecutter.
 

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Not wanting to brag. but I've had lift control, 6 axis IMU, and ABS since the 70's.
 

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Not wanting to brag. but I've had lift control, 6 axis IMU, and ABS since the 70's.
That's not bragging; that's delusion:rolleyes:. Not even top MotoGP riders can beat electronics (especially ABS), so even if you happen to be one, you'd be lying to yourself.
 

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That's not bragging; that's delusion:rolleyes:. Not even top MotoGP riders can beat electronics (especially ABS), so even if you happen to be one, you'd be lying to yourself.
Did I say beat electronics? No, I didn't.
I ride with a margin of safety and experience that allows me to brake while turning in, braking to tighten a line, stop on a wet road, and avoid looping my bike, without landing on my arse. I've done it for 50 odd years and it's what everyone did before the nanny's came along. Some of us were more succesfull than others.
And then there was the humorous side of my post, which you seem to have missed.
 
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Leaning on the electronics does seem to be the done thing now in the racing series that allow rider aids. Beauty of the MT though is that its not so powerful that it needs them really but it is nice to know they're there.
 

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I've never needed the nannies either (so far), probably due to several 2-day track school camps over the decades (last one at Laguna Seca, in 2019). But I absolutely want the latest nannies on my next bike. I still feel I need all the help I can get, since I like to ride the canyons aggressively... but relatively safely. I won't ride any harder with the nannies, but it's probably just a matter of time before I need to brake hard in the middle of a curve, and I'd like to have that extra margin of safety :).
 

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Nearly caught myself out on mine today, I had been practicing wheelies in LIFT mode 1 for about 600 miles and felt like taking the next step with the LIFT control set to off. Hadn't quite comprehended how much the electronics were slowing the rate in which the front wheel lifted. I knew it was limiting overall height but wasn't so aware how much it was limiting the rate of climb. The first 2nd gear clutch up I did with LIFT control off and I very very very nearly looped it. The LIFT control is fantastic but it causes you to be way more aggressive with the throttle and clutch than you need to be. Now with LIFT control off I don't need to give it half as many revs or be half as aggressive on the clutch. Lesson learnt.
 

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Also for reference, its pretty clear now I've ran with LIFT on and off that it is intervening differently dependant on which gear you are in. LIFT control is more intrusive at higher speeds in higher gears.
 

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TCS mode has to be off or in manual mode to defeat LIF control. The greatest thing about these bikes are their ability to dial a wheelie in 2nd gear and carry it into 4th gear. The quickshifter makes it a breeze. I have always had FLIP control, it's located in front of the right footpeg.
 

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Nearly caught myself out on mine today, I had been practicing wheelies in LIFT mode 1 for about 600 miles and felt like taking the next step with the LIFT control set to off. Hadn't quite comprehended how much the electronics were slowing the rate in which the front wheel lifted. I knew it was limiting overall height but wasn't so aware how much it was limiting the rate of climb. The first 2nd gear clutch up I did with LIFT control off and I very very very nearly looped it. The LIFT control is fantastic but it causes you to be way more aggressive with the throttle and clutch than you need to be. Now with LIFT control off I don't need to give it half as many revs or be half as aggressive on the clutch. Lesson learnt.
Good tale. I nearly wrecked my bike after 46 miles on the first day of ownership. I tried a few wheelies modes on then switched the nanny off. It took me by surprise & i got my foot caught up with the gear lever & was heading for the grass verge & trees. Palm sweating moment indeed, luckily no accident occurred but i gave myself a good blocking for being so stupid.
Toecutter
 
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