[J V]

Thanks marty for the great post great information good pictures very easy to do following your instructions only took me less than an hour J V

 

[emtechbali]

Thanks Marthy. It took me longer to drive to the store to get a 14mm Allen than it did to do the install. Only one question left. How tight is too tight.

 

[marthy]

Welcome guys! Glad the thread is helping you out... and I didn't do it for nothing. LOL

If you followed the procedure until the chain get snug and don't move from side to side... then back it off a bit, you should be fine. You should be able to slightly move the chain from side to side once it's all lock up. Little bit too much loose will be a bit noisy. Main thing you don't want is too tight with the chain not moving at all.

 

[italygreg]

Marthy, I can't thank you enough for all the info you have posted to this forum. I did the ninja shock swap as well with your great pic's and instructions. I just finished the ape cct install. my cam chain cover had no gasket! put a light coating of 1194 on it and buttoned it up. sounds great, just a light tick on start up. thank you again

 

[italygreg]

I have put on 200mi. since above post. noticed a high frequency vibration/buzz that wasn't there before ape cct install. most noticeable 5k to 6k rpm. not scientific but my bar end mirrors never blurred before and my feet and fingers feel a tingle. reinstalled stock cct and it went away! after trying various adjustments to the ape cct it seems one half turn out (loose) from marthys slight side to side chain movement is best. any tighter and buzz increases. there is more chain rattle noise but mirrors do not get as fuzzy.
my guess is vibration is from varying chain slack that was absorbed buy the stock cct oil and spring pressure. I would love to know the oil pressure difference in the engine between the ape and stock cct (way above my mechanical ability)! I wonder if ape knows and that's why the instructions say to block off oil passage with there unit? any thoughts on long term damage from reduced oil pressure or if is related to the buzz? thanks!

 

[SteveFZ-09]

I installed the APE manual CCT last night. Marthy, your "how-to" was very helpful; thanks for taking the time and effort to document your installation.

I found that the bolts provided by APE for fastening the CCT body to the engine were going in hard. I removed them and tried reinstalling them several times, but they always came to a point where I was not comfortable applying any more torque for fear of breaking them or stripping the bolt or hole. In the end I used the OEM bolts. In hindsight, and after looking at the APE bolts after they were removed, I think it is likely that some remnants of the original thread-locker fell into the bolt hole making the bolt a tighter fit. I am not sure why the OEM bolts went in easier though.

Other than the bolts everything went well. BTW, I used the finger-tight method for initial adjustment of the APE CCT, similar to when I installed a set-screw to keep the OEM CCT from backing out. I ran the engine afterward and no cam chain noise, even at 3000-5000 RPM. I hope to ride test it today.

 

[Emtee09]

how important is it to remove the cover and "lock" the slider in place with pliars or something similar? I ask because I've put mct's on bikes before and never done this and never had a problem just put it to tdc.... or is it different being a triple as somebody said earlier? the engine is more prone to roll over because of the 120* crank?

 

[Spacecoast]

how important is it to remove the cover and "lock" the slider in place

I don't know, but I think somewhere on this thread it stated that this was a Yamaha recommended procedure.

 

[marthy]

No sure if this is a Yammy procedure or not but it's an extra step for a piece of mind. Lile you said a typical 4 cylinder engine get in balance every 90 degree of cam, so it doesn't move as easy. This triple is a PITA! The timing mark are not even to TDC if you need to line everything up... thay says it all. LOL

If you're gentle with the cover the gasket should be reusable.

 

[MoFZio]

1. Remove the LH side engine case cap using a 14mm allen socket (same as front wheel) and remove the 6mm bolt with a 5mm allen. A 19mm socket is required to turn the engine over CCW. Turn until the timing marks line up inside the small hole

2. Use some tape to protect the frame over the CCT. First remove the inner bolt, toward the middle of the engine.

3. Here I will suggest you to go an extra step. Removing the RH side cover will make sure the chain doesn't skip a tooth and it will make it much easier to adjust the chain. I use my plier and some duct tape on the tip of the pliers to gently wedge between the engine case and the CCT slider.

About to tackle the job...APE CCT install.
Am I correct in understanding that step #1 can be eliminated (bypassed)???
Thanks for the info here, Marthy and other!

 

[marthy]

You can skip it bit if shit hit the fan and the chain skip... its a pain! Been there, done that. The part you don't want to mess with is the plier part to hold the tension on the chain.

I had a member contacting me few weeks ago about his engine doing funny noise after doing the CCT. Haven't heard about what up now... hope it was fixable.

 

[Emtee09]

"The part you don't want to mess with is the plier part to hold the tension on the chain." in other words? Don't skip this step!

I won't be skipping any of your steps for piece of mind. It's only a few extra nuts and bolts. Vs it skips and being ALOT extra nuts and bolts.

 

[MoFZio]

You can skip it bit if shit hit the fan and the chain skip... its a pain! Been there, done that. The part you don't want to mess with is the plier part to hold the tension on the chain.

I had a member contacting me few weeks ago about his engine doing funny noise after doing the CCT. Haven't heard about what up now... hope it was fixable.

Thanks, Marthy.
Yeah, realized it's just step one that I'd be skipping.
Probably could just manually spin the rear tire in 6th gear if need be.
Appreciate your input, brother!

 

[Emtee09]

Just done it following these steps.

Things I will add on, but it's just my opinion.

Take note of what the top side of the chain feels like before you remove the Yamaha cct. And this is what I aimed for tension wise when putting the ape in.

I tried the "go till the chain is tight" and back it off half a turn. But that still felt way tighter than the tension the Yamaha cct had.
So I went with what it felt like before.
Start it and running. I was then able to back the screw out a turn and a half before it started rattling. So I went back in half a turn and it stopped. I locked it down there.
So in my opinion a lot of people might have their chain too tight. My understanding of it is it only needs to be tight enough so it doesn't rattle.

Taking my original bolts out of the cct they were very stiff. Then the new ones wouldn't go in. Yamaha used a lot of lock tight that was gumming up the threads. Blow it out they went in smooth.

And make sure you have a 14mm Allen or you'll be like me using an old bolt lol

 

[bobby walnuts]

When I did it the engine wasn't on the timming mark when it skip a tooth, it was a major PITA to line everything up.

The timming mark are NOT at TDC but at some odd degree before or after, can't remember on top of my head. That required the removal of the gas tank, airbox, valve cover and radiator. There's 2 timming mark on the cams and the one on the LH side through the little hole.

back when i first got the service manual, i looked at the pages referencing valve adjustment and camshaft installation. you need to remove the cams to adjust the valve clearances, but the instructions are in two different sections of the manual.

the instructions for valve adjustment say that lining up the crankshaft timing mark brings piston #1 to tdc compression when the cam lobes are facing away from each other. the instructions for camshaft reinstallation on the other hands says that lining up the crankshaft timing mark brings piston #1 to 125° before tdc (btdc125). the information seems conflicting.

very recently (actually, last night) i was looking through the service manual more closely and it hit me. there are TWO timing marks on the crankshaft!

tdc:

btdc125

they're different, but easy to miss if you weren't expecting it.

with two timing marks, the instructions for both valve adjustment and camshaft installation make sense.

the first mark (single line) brings piston #1 to top dead center compression when the cam lobes are facing away from each other. this is used to check valve clearances. you then rotate the crank 240 degrees to check cylinder 2, then another 240 degrees for cylinder 3.

the second mark (2 lines) brings piston #1 to 125° before top dead center and is for installing the cams. there are marks on the cams that you then line up with marks on the cam caps for correct cam timing. these marks can also be used as a visual check of correct cam timing post installation.

marthy, it sounds like you were using the btdc125 timing mark, so that's why you found that cylinder 1 wasn't really at top dead center and why your engine didn't grenade after you reinstalled the cams. it's a good thing you didn't use the true tdc mark to drop the cams in!

 

[Emtee09]

So which one should we use for installing the cct? I used btdt125 aka the two lined triangle one. I guess it doesn't really matter if you use the pliar method of holding the chain slider in place

 

[bobby walnuts]

So which one should we use for installing the cct? I used btdt125 aka the two lined triangle one. I guess it doesn't really matter if you use the pliar method of holding the chain slider in place

yeah, maintaining the chain tension is the most critical part of it. position of the crank doesn't really matter, but having it at btdc125 just makes it easier if the chain jumps and you need to disassemble everything to check/adjust cam position as the crank is already in the correct position for that.

 

[brokenwall]

So I installed my APE CCT and since it is hard to find out when the Tensioner is too tight, we did our best to detect when the chain is right about right.

Started the bike up and listened to it and you hear a slight "whine" kind of how the chain on a chainsaw sounds when it is just right. This sound stays the same throughout the range, there is no tick. Is the "whine" the proper sound it should make or should I hear nothing from the right side of the engine?

If so I want to know so I can go down and adjust it back a bit.

 

[Spacecoast]

So which one should we use for installing the cct? I used btdt125 aka the two lined triangle one. I guess it doesn't really matter if you use the pliar method of holding the chain slider in place

It's possible that cam/lobe position can affect chain slack (or chain slack feel) in a stationary engine....so I would think that it would be important to know. In my opinion, APE should provide very specific instructions as to how to properly install and adjust.

 

[kevinh]

The site glass on the engine is lower then the engine cover needed to be removed. And you never fill the oil way past the top of the sight glass, so no real amount of oil will be lost. You need to open the case to hold tension on the cam chain to keep it from moving on the cam sprocket and changing cam timing.