[Nongbee]

You are at the bottom of the scale for what the stock suspension is set up for.

I suggest reducing the preload to minimum and checking the static sag. See if you can get static sag to about 35mm in the front.

Once you have the static sag set, then reduce the rebound damping to only 2-3 notches from minimum and see how that works.

Also know you need to adjust the rear shock as well.

If that does not help smooth the ride, you can also reduce the oil level in the forks by about 10-15 mm and that will soften things up a little as well.

thanks a lot for this. I will try and report back
On the back I set preload to a minimum and rebound damping to a maximum. It seems to me the schock preload and rebound are not well balanced in the design....

 

[XSR-900]

I setup my front pre-load in Post #33 and my rear pre-load in Post #40 ... details in those posts.

So today I looked at the rebound damping for the front and rear suspension. First thing I did was verify where they were set from the factory, and what the full range of adjustment was.

Front Forks
The factory setting on my XSR was 6 clicks from the fully rotated CW (max hard) position. The Owner's Manual says the standard (factory) setting is 7 clicks from fully CW.

The range of damping adjustment was 14 clicks on my front forks. The OM says it has 12, but has the caveat that you should determine what your actual adjustment range is due to production differences between bikes. So my XSR was set to 6 clicks out of 14 from full CW (hard).

I bounced on the front forks when the damping was set to full hard (ie, "0" clicks = fully CW) just to see how they felt - they felt super stiff. Yamaha says this bike only has a "rebound damping" adjustment, but it sure also affects the compression damping a whole bunch. IMO, the one adjuster seems to affect both compression and rebound damping about the same amount.

I set my front forks to 8 clicks out of 14 max from full CW (hard). Note that each easily felt "click" is exactly 1/4 turn of the damping adjuster screw.

Rear Shock
The factory setting on my XSR was 1-3/4 turns from the fully rotated CW (max hard) position. The Owner's Manual says the standard (factory) setting is 1-1/2 turns from fully CW.

The range of damping adjustment was exactly 3 turns on my rear shock, which is what the OM says it should be - but again, each bike could be a little different, so check your total range. So my rear shock was actually set a little softer (by 1/4 turn) than the 1-1/2 turns that the OM says is standard.

Again, I bounced on the seat while sitting on the bike when the rear shock was at max damping and it barely moved ... so again the damping adjuster also seems to affect the compression damping.

I set my rear shock to 2 turns from the fully CW (hard) position - which is 1/4 turn softer than it was.

I took the bike out for a ride, and having both the front and rear damping set a little softer than what they were has definitely made it ride better on rough road surfaces. Handling didn't seem to suffer at all, even in tight twisties. I'm weighing in at 196~197 lbs with my riding gear. I think I now have my suspension tweaked pretty well ... it's a whole lot better for my weight than how it came from the factory.

If you think your XSR rides too stiff, try setting the pre-load and damping setting for your weight ... you'll be surprised on how much better the suspension feels.

 

[motomania]

What do you mean when you "bounced" the front or rear to check the rebound?

To check the rebound you gently apply pressure to compress the suspension slowly and as far down as you can.

Then you release the pressure quickly and observe how the suspension comes back up.

In the front, you want the rebound to push the forks all the way to fully extended and then settle about a 1/4" (5mm).

In the rear, you want the rear shock to fully extend fully and stop at full extension with no or very very little settling.

Both of these are with no one on the bike and someone steadying the bike from the opposite end AND this can only be done AFTER you set the static sag as preload must be correct or it will throw the rebound off.

This gets you a baseline rebound setting.

Write it down front and rear.

Then go ride.

If it seems like it is pushing up on your hands or butt AFTER coming OFF a RAISED bump, then your rebound is too high and you need to adjust ONE end but not both ends, only one or two clicks and then repeat the test.

If it feels stiff over several bumps then you probably have too much rebound damping and you need to reduce it at one end one or two clicks and then repeat the test.

Again, I stress that you can only set the rebound accurately AFTER installing the correct springs and setting the correct static preload.

 

[XSR-900]

What do you mean when you "bounced" the front or rear to check the rebound?

If you sit on the bike you can actuate the suspension by firmly pushing down on the bars to bounce the forks or bounce on the seat to actuate the rear suspension. Go set the damping on your XSR to the max hard setting and you'll see it makes the suspension very stiff as the suppression compresses. Do the same test with the damping set to the middle of the adjustment range, and then again set to the minimum damping setting for comparison of how each setting affects both the compression and rebound of the suspension. Go ride the bike with the damping set to maximum and you'll think there are solid bars of metal in place of your shocks when they try to compress when hitting a large bump in the road.

If the "rebound damping" was truly affecting only the rebound damping, then only the suspension's rate of rebounding would change but the compression stiffness when the suspension collapses would basically stay the same. With the damping set to towards the maximum side, it's so stiff on compression that it feels like the springs are basically non-existent ... so the damping adjusters also seem to affect the compression damping.

 

[motomania]

If you sit on the bike you can actuate the suspension by firmly pushing down on the bars to bounce the forks or bounce on the seat to actuate the rear suspension. Go set the damping on your XSR to the max hard setting and you'll see it makes the suspension very stiff as the suppression compresses. Do the same test with the damping set to the middle of the adjustment range, and then again set to the minimum damping setting for comparison of how each setting affects both the compression and rebound of the suspension. Go ride the bike with the damping set to maximum and you'll think there are solid bars of metal in place of your shocks when they try to compress when hitting a large bump in the road.

If the "rebound damping" was truly affecting only the rebound damping, then only the suspension's rate of rebounding would change but the compression stiffness when the suspension collapses would basically stay the same. With the damping set to towards the maximum side, it's so stiff on compression that it feels like the springs are basically non-existent ... so the damping adjusters also seem to affect the compression damping.

I believe you do not fully understand how the suspension works.

The reason max rebound feels like it causes stiffness in compression is the lack of the suspension fully extending after each bump due too much rebound damping.

Here is a word picture: You ride over 10 bumps in a row. The rebound damping only allows the suspension to rebound 90% after the first bump and before the second bump.

On impact of the second bump the suspension is already compressed 10%, effectively giving more preload at that instant. As a result, the amount of force required to get the suspension to BEGIN to compress is more than what was required for the first bump, thus the second bump is a little more harsh than the first.

The rebound damping prevents the suspension from extending another 10% before meeting the third bump, effectively even more preload at that instant. As a result, the amount of force required to get the suspension to BEGIN to compress for the THIRD bump is even more than what was required for the second bump and a lot more than required for the first bump, thus the third bump is even more harsh than the second.

The process repeats across successive bumps until you have no suspension travel or the suspension is compressed enough that you effectively have a ton preload and thus require a huge amount of force before the suspension can compress further to absorb the bump.

As the force required to compress the suspension goes up, more force is transferred directly to the rider, instead of being absorbed by the suspension, thus resulting in the feel of a very stiff compression.

 

[XSR-900]

I believe you do not fully understand how the suspension works.

The reason max rebound feels like it causes stiffness in compression is the lack of the suspension fully extending after each bump due too much rebound damping.

Here is a word picture: You ride over 10 bumps in a row. The rebound damping only allows the suspension to rebound 90% after the first bump and before the second bump.

I get all of that ... but I'm talking about bouncing the suspension with the bike sitting in the garage. When you "bounce" the suspension you are testing both the compression and rebound damping. It's not the same exact thing as actually riding the bike, but it gives you an indication of both compression and rebound damping rates.

Like I said before, if the "rebound damping" adjuster only affected rebound damping, the the forks should feel exactly the same on the compression stroke and only feel different on the rebound stroke. They don't ... go try it yourself.

If you bounce the suspension with a higher "rebound damping" setting, and the forks feel like the springs are 3 times as stiff on the compression stroke when the pre-load was never touched, then the added stiffness upon compression is due to higher compression damping. How else do you explain that the forks just got 3 times stiffer feeling when they compress.

Go set the damping screw on your XSR to full soft, then the middle setting and finally the full hard setting and compare them to each other at each setting on how the forks feel on compression. You'll find it certainly does also affect the compression damping.

True or False: If the "rebound damping" adjuster ONLY affected the rebound damping, then the compression damping would stay exactly the same (and not feel any stiffer during the same compression rate) regardless of the rebound damping setting.

 

[Ifan]

I can't seem to get mine right. I can't really afford aftermarket now.
I weigh 62kg, maybe 65 with gear. I think the springs are just too stiff for me :-(

Not sure if the XSR suspension is stiffer than the one on the 2016 MT09, but I'm 59kg and had to stiffen the front and back a notch and edit: increase the rebound damping.
The brake dive was significantly less after that, and i feel way more confident on the bike after the adjustment. IIRC my sag was around 25mm in the rear, probably the same in the front.
The ride is only harsh on speed bumps and really rough roads (think roads with holes/rips damaged by frost).

 

[motomania]

I get all of that ... but I'm talking about bouncing the suspension with the bike sitting in the garage. When you "bounce" the suspension you are testing both the compression and rebound damping. It's not the same exact thing as actually riding the bike, but it gives you an indication of both compression and rebound damping rates.

Like I said before, if the "rebound damping" adjuster only affected rebound damping, the the forks should feel exactly the same on the compression stroke and only feel different on the rebound stroke. They don't ... go try it yourself.

If you bounce the suspension with a higher "rebound damping" setting, and the forks feel like the springs are 3 times as stiff on the compression stroke when the pre-load was never touched, then the added stiffness upon compression is due to higher compression damping. How else do you explain that the forks just got 3 times stiffer feeling when they compress.

Go set the damping screw on your XSR to full soft, then the middle setting and finally the full hard setting and compare them to each other at each setting on how the forks feel on compression. You'll find it certainly does also affect the compression damping.

True or False: If the "rebound damping" adjuster ONLY affected the rebound damping, then the compression damping would stay exactly the same (and not feel any stiffer during the same compression rate) regardless of the rebound damping setting.

First, I do not have a stock cartridge in my forks any longer so I can't try what you are saying.

Second, I have the stock cartridge in a box and all I can say is you must be imagining things because the compression damping circuit is totally unaffected by the rebound damping circuit.

They are not the same circuit that the oil passes through at all.

Oil passes in one direction through the rebound damping circuit and during compression, the oil is flowing in a different direction and the rebound damping path is closed by a check valve effect of the rebound valves. the reverse is true during rebound.

Look at the flow diagrams of the stock cartridge. They are two totally separate paths flowing in the opposite direction and adjusting the rebound damping adjustment does not have any effect or movement or adjustment of the compression damping circuit.

 

[XSR-900]

First, I do not have a stock cartridge in my forks any longer so I can't try what you are saying.

Second, I have the stock cartridge in a box and all I can say is you must be imagining things because the compression damping circuit is totally unaffected by the rebound damping circuit.

They are not the same circuit that the oil passes through at all.

Oil passes in one direction through the rebound damping circuit and during compression, the oil is flowing in a different direction and the rebound damping path is closed by a check valve effect of the rebound valves. the reverse is true during rebound.

Look at the flow diagrams of the stock cartridge. They are two totally separate paths flowing in the opposite direction and adjusting the rebound damping adjustment does not have any effect or movement or adjustment of the compression damping circuit.

I'm not "imaging" anything - I've played with the settings. I'm telling you flat out that when the "rebound damping" is adjusted the compression damping also changes on this bike. I'm sure others with the stock suspension on their XSR can tell you the same thing if they play around with the damping adjusters.

Like said, in "theory" if ONLY the rebound damping was affected with the setting, then the forks would still feel exactly the same on the compression stroke, but they do not behave that way. When the rebound damping is set to hard, the compression stroke also becomes very hard/stiff. When the rebound damping is set to soft, the compression stoke also becomes very soft.

If the rebound setting only affected the rebound, then the compression stroke would feel the same regardless of the rebound setting. It does not work that way on this bike ... if you increase the rebound damping setting, the compression stroke also becomes very stiff, it does NOT stay constant on compression and only change on rebound.

 

[XSR-900]

Look at the flow diagrams of the stock cartridge. They are two totally separate paths flowing in the opposite direction and adjusting the rebound damping adjustment does not have any effect or movement or adjustment of the compression damping circuit.

The Service Manual shows no such flow diagrams. You have them for the XSR?

 

[Rocky_MTN_FZ09]

This one:

And this one:

And you're ready to go.

 

[gsatterw]

I could be wrong, but the low speed rebound adjustment needle varies the size of an orifice to adjust the effective diameter. Since the compression and rebound are in the same cartridge, the low speed rebound would also effect the low speed compression since it would allow some fluid into the top side of the piston on the compression stroke.

 

[pattonme]

(below describes an industry standard cartridge, not Yamaha's abomination)

you're right in theory @gsatterw except that the top-side of the piston is a pop-off with a rather light spring. so it doesn't take much hydraulic pressure at all to overcome the spring and completely negate the regulating effect of the needle thru the orifice.

the top-side of the rebound piston (aka mid-valve) sees ~2/3rd of total fluid displacement. The balance of the oil has to exit thru the bottom and that's regulated by the base valve.

But back to the FZ/FJ/XSR:
Yamaha put a shit-ton of shims on the top-side of mid-valve so that it doesn't flow properly in compression. And thus the needle does have an effect in both directions.

 

[XSR-900]

I could be wrong, but the low speed rebound adjustment needle varies the size of an orifice to adjust the effective diameter. Since the compression and rebound are in the same cartridge, the low speed rebound would also effect the low speed compression since it would allow some fluid into the top side of the piston on the compression stroke.

Could be the case on this bike. When I do the "bounce test" as shown in the video in Post #51 above, the compression down stroke is drastically harder/stiffer when the rebound damping setting is set on the hard side of the range. And noticeably softer if the damping is set to the soft side. Someone with an XSR can play with their front damping adjuster and should see the same thing I'm describing ... unless my bike is messed up, which I highly doubt.

The video in Post #51 was using an FZ-09 (2014 or 2015 model), but from what I gather the forks on the XSR are different than the FZ-09. In that video, it basically looks like the return stroke is only affected ... doesn't seem to be the case on my XSR. Same way on the rear shock - compression damping is greatly increased if the adjuster is set to a harder position. Maybe the suspension acts differently on the road, but I wouldn't think so. The bounce test basically simulates the suspension hitting a bump in the road.

 

[pattonme]

Right, sorry. Edited.

 

[XSR-900]

I described how I originally setup my damping in Post #42. I setup my front pre-load in Post #33 and my rear pre-load in Post #40 ... details in those posts. I'm 200 lbs in gear.

I decided to try softening the front and rear damping by another 1/4 turn, and IMO it helped out a little more on really rough roads. I'm still not getting any "bouncy" feeling from the suspension, so I haven't gone too soft yet on the damping.

So my final damping settings are:
Front = 9 clicks CCW from fully CW (which is full hard). 9 clicks is 2-1/4 turns since each "click" is 1/4 turn.
Rear = 2-1/4 turns CCW from fully CW (which is full hard).

 

[Nongbee]

This one:
And you're ready to go.

So, last week I joined a organized trip with my brother. This was after I was fidgeting with the suspension.
Long story short, I felt really uncomfortable and even got that uneasy that I didn't even finish the tour and went back home. (and felt really bad)
Mind you, we were riding very, very fast.

So this weekend I thought I would do as the videos posted earlier recommend.

I think I got the front sorted.
I measured 140 mm in fully extended position and 100 mm when seated (in the setting with the least preload). So that seems right around the 30% sag.
I then proceeded to set the preload according to the second video.

But in the back, I think I really do need a different shock.
I measure 525 mm in fully extended position (between axle and seat) and 498 mm when seated.
My buddy who weighs 85 kg only added another cm to that.
I also then proceeded to set the preload as per the video.

Now, I have some remarks.
Is my rear shock way too stiff and do I need indeed a much softer spring on the back?
When riding hard and watching my front fork, I notice that I am bottoming out or at least nearly. Combine that observation with the fact that my ABS seems to activate almost always when braking hard, I think I actually need a somewhat stiffer fork setting?

Do these observations match the consensus about the XSR-900 suspension?
Should I go full Ohlins or Wilbers on the back, or can I just change the spring?

 

[XSR-900]

Do these observations match the consensus about the XSR-900 suspension?

What's your weight with full riding gear on?

So I take it you have your rear shock on position #1 which is the softest pre-load.

What about your damping settings - did you check and change them at all? People are finding that the damping setting actually affects both the compression and rebound.

 

[Nongbee]

What's your weight with full riding gear on?

So I take it you have your rear shock on position #1 which is the softest pre-load.

What about your damping settings - did you check and change them at all? People are finding that the damping setting actually affects both the compression and rebound.

yes, both preload settings (front and back) are on the softest setting.
Damping was adjusted according to the second video a few posts back. I don't know exaclty what the setting is but I could check that....

 

[pattonme]

Yes the shock is oversprung. Im guessing you're about 150lbs? 25mm of rider sag isn't ideal but it's not the end of the world. I would have liked to see at least 30 though. 40 is too much, I'd draw the line at 35.

It is advisable to measure sag with the rebound mostly open so it doesn't add to 'sticktion'