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Discussion starter · #63 · (Edited)
The question I have is how bad is it for the engine and how long will it take to cause a problem, that will have to be fixed. I ride in cool weather all the time.
I look at it as a cumulative thing. Running too cold won't cause any kind of sudden problem or failure, just increased wear and eventual serious problems down the road. Think of it kind of like if you changed your oil every 10k miles instead of every 3k, everything would seem fine for a long time, but eventually the bike would start sounding kind of loose and rattly, burning oil, losing power etc.
 
The 'Engine Specifications' section does list an idling condition water temperature of 194F-230F. I know for a fact that my bike will hit those numbers if left to idle long enough. So, it's possible this operation may be normal.
yes, that's normal. if you leave the engine idling long enough with the bike stationary, the temps will go up until the fan comes on at which point the temps should more or less stabilize.
 
Discussion starter · #67 ·
That's the 'only' way. However, it's also one data point (and maybe erroneous?). Though it sounds like others have the same issues.
But does anyone have a good understanding of how the thermostat can control the engine temperature when it's reading the output from the radiator? It seems like the thermostat would have to have a much different opening temp than the engine temp you were shooting for since the coolant the thermostat is seeing has been cooled by the radiator already. It also seems like the radiator output temp would be able to vary a lot even with engine output temp staying the same.
 
With my experience working on Japanese cars, the thermostat does not have an accurate read of the temperatures between the radiator and engine. Not sure what its called, but there is an element in the thermostat that reacts to the temperature of the coolant on the engine side. When this element (someone here help me out) reaches its rated temperature it causes the thermostat valve to open up and allow the radiator coolant to cycle through into the engine. Each thermostat element is selected by the engine designers to accommodate the engine its going into.

The gauge cluster and ECU gets its temperature reading from a temp sending unit connected to the engine, typically in the same area of the thermostat. Its possible to have a defective sending unit giving you and ECU inaccurate temp readings even though the actual engine temps are on target.

The cooling fans also operate on a separate temp sensor usually located on the radiator.

So in short, there are many layers to the cooling system of an engine that need to be investigated.
 
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But does anyone have a good understanding of how the thermostat can control the engine temperature when it's reading the output from the radiator? It seems like the thermostat would have to have a much different opening temp than the engine temp you were shooting for since the coolant the thermostat is seeing has been cooled by the radiator already. It also seems like the radiator output temp would be able to vary a lot even with engine output temp staying the same.
The FZ's coolinng system sends coolant out the front of the block. The large hose feeds the radiator, the small hose feeds the oil cooler (heat exchanger). When the cooling system is operating under the thermostat's opening temperature (whatever that is), the thermostat is closed. Therefore, flow through the radiator is minimal and is limited to the bleed through/around the thermostat. During this operation, the coolant circulates mostly from the engine, to the oil cooler, through the thermostat housing, and back to the water pump for circulation to the engine. Once the engine and oil cooler sheds enough heat into the coolant, the thermostat opens and the bulk of the cooling system flow is directed through the radiator.

So...limiting bypass through the thermostat and/or reducing airflow through the radiator will speed up the cooling process. Atypical perhaps, but that is how it currently operates.

With my experience working on Japanese cars, the thermostat does not have an accurate read of the temperatures between the radiator and engine. Not sure what its called, but there is an element in the thermostat that reacts to the temperature of the coolant on the engine side. When this element (someone here help me out) reaches its rated temperature it causes the thermostat valve to open up and allow the radiator coolant to cycle through into the engine. Each thermostat element is selected by the engine designers to accommodate the engine its going into.

The gauge cluster and ECU gets its temperature reading from a temp sending unit connected to the engine, typically in the same area of the thermostat. Its possible to have a defective sending unit giving you and ECU inaccurate temp readings even though the actual engine temps are on target.

The cooling fans also operate on a separate temp sensor usually located on the radiator.

So in short, there are many layers to the cooling system of an engine that need to be investigated.
The 'element' you are speak of are commonly waxes that are designed to soften at specific temperatures. When it softens, the thermostat opens. Most cars (and engines that I've been into) use the thermostat to block the flow of coolant to the radiator until the engine reaches operating temperature. There are a few exceptions, but the bulk I've worked with operate as such. The FZ-09 is an exception.

The temperature sensor is located in the back of the cylinder head (facing the rider). I don't think any non-Yamaha employees are privy to the coolant jacket routing at this time, so unsure where the sensor is reading in relation to the cooling system diagram. At any rate, this is the sensor that commands the fan's operation. There is no temp sensor in the radiator.

Not that it helps us...but the Super Tenere runs cool, as well...
 
Well, R&D budget is getting low. So I zip tie a piece of plastic I had here layimg around, 2" wide across tye rad. Seems ok... 172-6F this morning in my way to work. I will try another at 3" tonight.

Obviously not something that will stay on the bike but once I know how much blocking % I can get away with I will buy the proper perforated sheet of aluminum or stainless and build a rad protector.

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Discussion starter · #71 ·
Update on my thermostat mod. I was out Saturday on the bike and got up in the mountains. The outside temperature was 39 degrees according to the bike. The coolant temp never dropped below 156, even going down a long hill mostly off the throttle. Before, the coolant ran just about 100 degrees hotter than the air temp. Normally in 65 degree temps the bike runs at 158 to 160 degrees. It looks to me like the fix did what I hoped it would but I still want to see how it does in temps around 30 degrees or so.
 
Nice Corey.

My 2" blocker test work great too. Just to throw some reference number here. The weather was in the mid to low 80's and cruising around the temps were stable 175-185F. So to me it's a good minimum. I have the numbers at work but I think it about 74% air flow (25% blocked)

We are expecting colder weather here in the next few days... I'll do more testing. Then I'll built my own rad protector.
 
Hey everyone. Began my break in process tonight. I let the bike warm up extra long; somewhere between 12 and 15 minutes. It was my first ride and I was just checking it out and suiting up, etc... So, speaking of temperatures. This is my first motorcycle and I had no idea to expect a digital temp gauge. I could feel the heat between my legs during the first ride; opposed to my Zuma125, which produces significantly less heat of course. My question is:

Was that too long of a warm up period?
Secondly,

After my first ride the temp read over 200degrees. I believe I saw 217. outside air temp was approximately 55 degrees out. But i noticed the outside air gauge said 71.
What is normal operating temperature? and What is too high/ overheating?

After allowing the bike to cool, I rode again, a little longer. Max temp was more like 190, did not reach 200.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
I don't know the temperature of the thermostat in the bike. If it has a 180 degree thermostat for example, it should stay completely closed until 180 degrees, effectively no hot coolant passing through the radiator. If operating normally, coolant temp should never drop more than a few degrees below 180.
A lot of bikes have the water pump connected to the drive shaft. Is this one electric? Usually all the thermostat does is switch the fan.
 
A lot of bikes have the water pump connected to the drive shaft. Is this one electric? Usually all the thermostat does is switch the fan.
Crankshaft-driven, not driveshaft. And no, this one is not electric.

The thermostat regulates flow through the radiator. You're thinking of the coolant temperature switch, which turns the fan on. Two different components.
 
Hey everyone. Began my break in process tonight. I let the bike warm up extra long; somewhere between 12 and 15 minutes. It was my first ride and I was just checking it out and suiting up, etc... So, speaking of temperatures. This is my first motorcycle and I had no idea to expect a digital temp gauge. I could feel the heat between my legs during the first ride; opposed to my Zuma125, which produces significantly less heat of course. My question is:

Was that too long of a warm up period?
Secondly,

After my first ride the temp read over 200degrees. I believe I saw 217. outside air temp was approximately 55 degrees out. But i noticed the outside air gauge said 71.
What is normal operating temperature? and What is too high/ overheating?

After allowing the bike to cool, I rode again, a little longer. Max temp was more like 190, did not reach 200.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
As long as your cooling system is working properly and there is adequate ventilation in your garage or whatever, the bike will not overheat when idling no matter how long. The ambient air temp gauge may have been fooled by engine heat into thinking it was warmer outside than it really was. 217 is not bad for a bike to run. I had a Suzuki that would get to 220 before the fan came on. Anything higher than 230 is bad. 190-200 while riding on a 70-55 degree day is within the norm. At that temp the fan is off, the coolant is circulating and being cooled by ambient air.
 
Nice Corey.

My 2" blocker test work great too. Just to throw some reference number here. The weather was in the mid to low 80's and cruising around the temps were stable 175-185F. So to me it's a good minimum. I have the numbers at work but I think it about 74% air flow (25% blocked)

We are expecting colder weather here in the next few days... I'll do more testing. Then I'll built my own rad protector.
Seems to prove Coreytrevor right, looks like too much coolant bypasses the thermostat and ends up in the radiator too soon. I cannot figure out why this bike would run 220 in traffic and 140 on highway. It even feels like theres no thermostat at all...
 
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