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How do you intentionally bring your wheel up... Power, Clutch... other?
 

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Normally I prefer clutch up for the control.
But I've been doing mostly power whoolies recently. With the linear torque curve I feel like I have adequate control in either situation.
 

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I mainly use clutch in 2nd or 3rd pops up nice as long as tires or warm had it slip many times on cold ish tires
What rpm range do you use for clutching in 2nd and 3rd gear? Ie what rpm when you pull it in, at what rpm when you let it out?...approx speed?

I understand the concept of how to clutch wheelie...I just never found a spot to practice this
 

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It depends on the situation:

1. Shifting in the air, tricky.
I power it up easily in first gear, and shift into second as it is coming up without the clutch. As it gets high towards the balance point, I shift into 3rd, and then forth as the revs climb. If the revs are too high, the bike will not shift.

2. Power Wheelies, 2nd. and 3rd. gear.
I get the revs up into the sweet spot, back off a tad to load the front wheel as I am leaning forward, snatch a handful of throttle, pull back and enjoy the climb. I will shift in the air, but you will find yourself doing 120 mph wheelies. If you get a wobble, you will have your hands full.

3. Clutch wheelies in third. Flick the clutch within a certain RPM range.

* Disclaimer - I raced motocross for over twenty years. I have flipped wheelies on dirt bikes. The consequences are minimal in the dirt and can be lethal on the pavement. I keep my foot close to the back brake in case I go beyond the balance point or the wind pushes me back at high speed. Also, I have a great sense of balance, which is paramount to keeping the bike pointed where you want to go in the air or save you if the bike gyrates. This is not for everyone.
 

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This is not for Bob! lol I'm not into high, sustained wheelies, but I do enjoy accelerating as hard as the bike can, and on the 09 that does lead to a light front. ;) I've been putting my face between the mirrors for gassing it hard, would like to get bars half way to racing clip on position.

Question: Two different riders on the same bike, situation, rider height and posture etc, only difference rider weight, will the heavy rider wheelie easier because of the raised center of gravity?

... If the revs are too high, the bike will not shift. ...
I clutchless up shift often, in my one 26 mile ride on the 09 before winter I did some, seemed fine, I don't understand what you are saying about it. Is there something different about shifting in a wheelie, other than flipping?



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I clutchless up shift often, in my one 26 mile ride on the 09 before winter I did some, seemed fine, I don't understand what you are saying about it. Is there something different about shifting in a wheelie, other than flipping?
Upshifting while wheelying gets harder the higher the rpm's go, just like when both wheels are on the ground - no difference except when wheelying you need to get that shift completed very quickly to maintain your lift, or risk the front dropping down too far. The higher you are in the rev's, the harder it is for the higher cog to engage, there's some technical wizardry behind it but I couldn't explain the exact reason why, except to say that it's the same on one wheel or two.
 

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Aren't you guys concerned that your bike will flip over?? Does it feel stable? (..coming from cruisers, I know nothing about this)
 

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Aren't you guys concerned that your bike will flip over?? Does it feel stable? (..coming from cruisers, I know nothing about this)
Jen, my wife doesn't like to wheelie for that reason. I keep my foot close to the back brake for when it starts to creep beyond the balance point. Tapping the back brake will force all of the weight and momentum forward thus saving the wheelie from a backwards flip, but has to be applied very carefully or you will slam down and loose control. If I did not have so much experience and practice on motocross bikes, I doubt that I would be so good at it on a streetbike.
 

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This is not for Bob! lol I'm not into high, sustained wheelies, but I do enjoy accelerating as hard as the bike can, and on the 09 that does lead to a light front. ;) I've been putting my face between the mirrors for gassing it hard, would like to get bars half way to racing clip on position.

Question: Two different riders on the same bike, situation, rider height and posture etc, only difference rider weight, will the heavy rider wheelie easier because of the raised center of gravity?



I clutchless up shift often, in my one 26 mile ride on the 09 before winter I did some, seemed fine, I don't understand what you are saying about it. Is there something different about shifting in a wheelie, other than flipping?
The transmission will not engage the next gear without the clutch if the RPM's are past a certain point because of the load on the dogs.
 

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The transmission will not engage the next gear without the clutch if the RPM's are past a certain point because of the load on the dogs.
But that is in a wheelie? You aren't letting off the throttle for the clutchless shift? Front wheel down, I can be wailing on a bike and it cluthless shifts just fine, with a down blip of the throttle.

Question: Two different riders on the same bike, situation, rider height and posture etc, only difference rider weight, will the heavy rider wheelie easier because of the raised center of gravity?



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Yes a heavy rider who slams all their weight onto the pillion seat area will certainly help things along. But for bigger power and weight bikes it's really the power of the engine not the weight of the rider getting the wheel up. On an xr50 when a 200lbs person rides it the wheelie is all about the weight and a little pulling on the bars to wheelie as there is no engine power.
 

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I do not let off the throttle when shifting on a wheelie, and if I do, it is very slight and quick to keep the wheel up. This topic was about wheelies. I have no idea what works for other people, weight, height, etc. I have done it so long, I do it by feel alone. I could pull my Schwinn Stingray out of my garage and keep it on the back wheel a mile down the road through several turns without ever setting the front wheel down as a child. I would sit in class and balance my chair on the back legs for minutes at a time just as practice for my one wheel obsession. It would always piss my teachers off.
 

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Foxedupone, not the situation I meant, I mean the bike is rolling, no shifting, clutch etc, the rider is only sitting normally. Rider gasses it, the bike has enough torque that the front will come up (a FZ 09 lol). Makes sense to me that a heavier rider will give the combined rider and bike a higher center of gravity, and wheelie easier.



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Dont think of it as the back wheel lifting the front off the ground...think of it as the back wheel moving forward so quickly, that it tries to run past the sprung forward mass of the bike....which is why the rear suspension unloads, rather than squats, during acceleration. The more mass you have above that forward vector, the more easily the forward mass will tend get out of the way...rather than being pushed forward by the rear wheel. They are sort of like competing mechanisms...but I think probably during a wheelie (not at balance point) the rear suspension is mostly unloaded.

Let me know if I am completely full of crap :)
 

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There can be multiple things happening at once. I'll let someone else talk about the suspension but that doesn't read right to me.

Yes the forward thrust is under the center of gravity, and lightens the front. There is also torque, if you look at the bike from the left the rear wheel is being twisted counter clockwise, so the rest of the bike is being twisted clockwise, front up. A bike in a jump, there isn't any thrust, acceleration etc, but reving the engine will still raise the front because of the reaction from the crank and rear wheel.



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Dont think of it as the back wheel lifting the front off the ground...think of it as the back wheel moving forward so quickly, that it tries to run past the sprung forward mass of the bike....which is why the rear suspension unloads, rather than squats, during acceleration. The more mass you have above that forward vector, the more easily the forward mass will tend get out of the way...rather than being pushed forward by the rear wheel. They are sort of like competing mechanisms...but I think probably during a wheelie (not at balance point) the rear suspension is mostly unloaded.

Let me know if I am completely full of crap :)
Stoltec would be much better at this but I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. When you accelerate, you LOAD the rear end and UNLOAD the front. When in a wheelie, the rear is loaded in so much that it's compressed as it's bearing the vast majority of the rider weight and the bike's weight.

Problem with OEM suspension on the FZ is that it's so soft that it transfers too much weight onto the shock when accelerating and since it's so softly sprung, there it too much pitching rearward, and conversely, forward onto the forks when braking as they too are too soft for aggressive braking or a heavier rider. Trying to finish a corner with the OEM stuff would be hard as I imagine as the moment you pick up the throttle and load the shock, it'll squat too much and that will "lift" the front and that will then push the front which won't allow you to stay on your intended line.
 
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