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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

This is something that happens at least 1-3 times a week. Keep in mind I use my FZ-09 everyday, it is my only transportation.

Scenario - In the morning when I start my bike for work, it will fire right up. (I'm in southern California so at 6am it is about 50 degrees.)

By the late afternoon when I leave work, it is 70-80 degrees outside. I put my key in the ignition, turn to the on position, wait about 5 seconds, then push the start button down. The bike responds with not turning over. I then have to turn the bike off then back on about 2-5 times or so, even having to twist the throttle, then the bike will suddenly fire right up.

I'm mentioning the temperatures because I noticed when it is cold outside my bike has no issue starting up, BUT when it is warm outside I get this problem.

It reminds me of when I had a carbureted bike. I know that my FZ-09 is fuel injected, but it makes me uneasy to have a 2014 Yamaha that won't start on the first try! Has anyone else had these types of issues?

Thanks,
 

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There have been other threads on this topic. The consensus is that the CA emissions apparatus is part of the problem. It has to do with the heat causing excess vapors and they flood something or other. Apparently it happens on FJR's too. I live in SD and when I park outside in the heat I get this issue too. I don't mind it so much now--it gives me a reason to rev it a couple times after startup without seeming like a lout.
 

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Maybe vapor lock? Happens on fuel-injected small airplanes if it sits in the heat after running. Pain to restart.
 

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Remove the EVAP canister. Happened to me last week when I left the bike out in the sun. Mine is coming out this weekend
 

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Haven't had this happen to mine but have two friends with a FJR and a ST 1300 with that problem and they open the gas cap before starting after the bikes sit in the sun. I know a lot of vapor comes out when they open the cap but their bikes start right up, these are California bikes also. Might be worth a try. RR. :cool:
 

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I had the same issues. Problem went away with removing the EVAP canister. The above link shows how easy it is. If you don't want to do that, then pop open the gas cap and let it breath for a second or two, and that will release that pressure. Although I don't recommend it, cuz gas fumes and stuff. :)
 
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Maybe vapor lock? Happens on fuel-injected small airplanes if it sits in the heat after running. Pain to restart.
Would it help to pop the fuel cap? to vent any excess pressure before starting?

Just a thought, not sure if it will or will not help, but might be worth a try. Just beware if you tank is fuel, you don't want any fuel burping out all over your bike.
 

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Hello,

I put my key in the ignition, turn to the on position, wait about 5 seconds, then push the start button down. The bike responds with not turning over. I then have to turn the bike off then back on about 2-5 times or so, even having to twist the throttle, then the bike will suddenly fire right up.
Questions: does the dash light up and go through its start-up routine or not?

If the dash is not lighting up and going through the start-up routine, then I suggest checking the electrical connectors for the ignition switch and for the ECU to make sure they are on tight.

It might be worth checking those connectors in any case as they should be tight and any looseness will eventually cause problems. If you have had your ECU out for reflash or something, then it is possible the connectors were not installed tightly.

Vapor lock due to the evaporative emissions system would not prevent the engine from turning over.

Vapor lock due to evaporative emissions canister blockage can prevent starting but the engine will still spin when you press the button.

My guess is one of 2 things:
1) you have a weak battery
2) the engine start switch is making a bad contact

So I suggest you:
1) check the battery terminals to make sure they are clean and tight.
2) check the battery voltage with the engine off key off and again with the engine off key on to see what the voltage of the battery is under load.

How far do you ride from home to work? If it is a short distance it could be you are not riding enough to fully recharge the battery? Just a thought.

AND

3) Open the switch cluster on the right and pull the switch apart and clean the brass switch terminals with 400 grit sandpaper or a emory board for shaping fingernails.

Then clean everything out of there and reinstall some dielectric gel on the switch to seal the switch terminals from moisture. Autozone sells the dielectric gel in little packets for sealing up headlight connectors and such. You need a very small amount.

Then ride for a while and see if that solves the problem.
 
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hello,

this is something that happens at least 1-3 times a week. Keep in mind i use my fz-09 everyday, it is my only transportation.

Scenario - in the morning when i start my bike for work, it will fire right up. (i'm in southern california so at 6am it is about 50 degrees.)

by the late afternoon when i leave work, it is 70-80 degrees outside. I put my key in the ignition, turn to the on position, wait about 5 seconds, then push the start button down. The bike responds with not turning over. I then have to turn the bike off then back on about 2-5 times or so, even having to twist the throttle, then the bike will suddenly fire right up.

I'm mentioning the temperatures because i noticed when it is cold outside my bike has no issue starting up, but when it is warm outside i get this problem.

It reminds me of when i had a carbureted bike. I know that my fz-09 is fuel injected, but it makes me uneasy to have a 2014 yamaha that won't start on the first try! Has anyone else had these types of issues?

Thanks,

same problem here
 

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another possibility although this should get worse with cold not heat but a lithium ion battery needs some draw to warm the battery up before you hit it with the current required to turn the starter. when I upgraded my sv to a lithium ion battery the manufacturer said turn the key on, let the headlight draw current for 30 seconds, then start the bike
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I live in SD and when I park outside in the heat I get this issue too. I don't mind it so much now--it gives me a reason to rev it a couple times after startup without seeming like a lout.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's good for the engine to rev while turning on.


Thank you for this! I'll check it out.

Haven't had this happen to mine but have two friends with a FJR and a ST 1300 with that problem and they open the gas cap before starting after the bikes sit in the sun. I know a lot of vapor comes out when they open the cap but their bikes start right up, these are California bikes also. Might be worth a try. RR. :cool:
Thanks! I'll try this method before I bother taking the part out.

Questions: does the dash light up and go through its start-up routine or not?
If you have had your ECU out for reflash or something, then it is possible the connectors were not installed tightly.
Vapor lock due to the evaporative emissions system would not prevent the engine from turning over.
Vapor lock due to evaporative emissions canister blockage can prevent starting but the engine will still spin when you press the button.

My guess is one of 2 things:
1) you have a weak battery
2) the engine start switch is making a bad contact

So I suggest you:
1) check the battery terminals to make sure they are clean and tight.
2) check the battery voltage with the engine off key off and again with the engine off key on to see what the voltage of the battery is under load.

How far do you ride from home to work? If it is a short distance it could be you are not riding enough to fully recharge the battery? Just a thought.

AND

3) Open the switch cluster on the right and pull the switch apart and clean the brass switch terminals with 400 grit sandpaper or a emory board for shaping fingernails.

Then clean everything out of there and reinstall some dielectric gel on the switch to seal the switch terminals from moisture. Autozone sells the dielectric gel in little packets for sealing up headlight connectors and such. You need a very small amount.

Then ride for a while and see if that solves the problem.
Dash lights up and I give it 5-10 seconds to run it's routine just in case.
Never had ECU reflashed or removed.
I agree with your Vapor lock theory as others have mentioned here as well (battery is Lithium and works great and all connections are solid).

another possibility although this should get worse with cold not heat but a lithium ion battery needs some draw to warm the battery up before you hit it with the current required to turn the starter. when I upgraded my sv to a lithium ion battery the manufacturer said turn the key on, let the headlight draw current for 30 seconds, then start the bike
Very interesting theory although this happens to me when it's in the sun and warm. I'm thinking it's the EVAP canister although I'll keep this in mind.
 

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Dash lights up and I give it 5-10 seconds to run it's routine just in case.
Never had ECU reflashed or removed.
I agree with your Vapor lock theory as others have mentioned here as well (battery is Lithium and works great and all connections are solid).
First rule of troubleshooting anything is to look at what was changed since the issue came up. Then go examine that change to make sure everything is correct.

Since you are having a starting issue which is the only high amperage operation performed by the bike, then you need to make sure the battery terminals are good. Especially since they have been changed/moved when the new battery was installed.

Checking the battery voltage under load and making sure all 6 battery cable connections are good would be the first thing I check in your situation.
 

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This is Yamaha's explanation to my Yamaha dealer regarding the hard starting but cranking issue -

"After speaking with Yamaha a few times on this it appears that it can happen when the emissions canister starts to fill up with fuel.

When you fill the tank, the fuel level should be no higher than 1cm below the fill plate, this accounts for when the fuel expands when the tank is exposed to heat.

It is not a Yamaha related problem nor is a there a part fix, If the fuel tank is overfilled on California bikes this is a possibility."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This is Yamaha's explanation to my Yamaha dealer regarding the hard starting but cranking issue -

"After speaking with Yamaha a few times on this it appears that it can happen when the emissions canister starts to fill up with fuel.

When you fill the tank, the fuel level should be no higher than 1cm below the fill plate, this accounts for when the fuel expands when the tank is exposed to heat.

It is not a Yamaha related problem nor is a there a part fix, If the fuel tank is overfilled on California bikes this is a possibility."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wow thanks for that, very helpful. I do tend to add more fuel after the pump stops because in CA the pump is rigged with some overflow sensor than will disable the pump when it get's close to being full. But there is still more room left to add fuel so I pull out slightly and fill her up to the top :friendly_wink:
 

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This is Yamaha's explanation to my Yamaha dealer regarding the hard starting but cranking issue -

"After speaking with Yamaha a few times on this it appears that it can happen when the emissions canister starts to fill up with fuel.

When you fill the tank, the fuel level should be no higher than 1cm below the fill plate, this accounts for when the fuel expands when the tank is exposed to heat.

It is not a Yamaha related problem nor is a there a part fix, If the fuel tank is overfilled on California bikes this is a possibility."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
First, the canister blockage does not prevent the engine from spinning over when you press the start button. The canister blockage can reduce fuel pressure but the engine will still spin when you press the starter button.

A fuel injected bike needs a sufficient fuel pressure to be able to deliver fuel through the fuel injectors, usually about 45-60 psi, 55 psi being typical.

The reason for the canister reducing the fuel pressure is simple, if you understand what the canister is there for.

The canister is attached to the vent lines on the fuel tank to absorb fuel vapors trying to escape from the tank.

The vapors expand in the tank, usually due to the fuel heating up from sitting on top of a hot engine or from sitting in the sun or both.

As the vapors expand, the tank would become pressurized unless the vapors have some place to go, so there is a vent line. If the pressure was not vented off, the tank would inflate like a balloon and expand outward out of shape. It would not take a lot of pressure to damage the tank in this way.

However, if the vent line was just vented to the air, then the fuel vapors would escape into the air and that is a source of smog.

With the canister installed in the vent line, the fuel vapors are absorbed into the activated charcoal (usually) contained in the canister and the remaining hot air passes through the canister and escapes to the atmosphere or the airbox. Thus allowing the fuel vapors to vent off without polluting the air and thus reducing the pressure in the fuel tank.

As the fuel level drops in the tank as you are riding and burning up your fuel, the space above the fuel becomes larger and eventually would drop to a low enough pressure (vacuum) to prevent the fuel from flowing consistently out of the tank. This is less of an issue with fuel injected bike because the fuel pump is inside the tank but it can still cause the fuel pump to be overworked.

The solution is to allow air to vent INTO the tank as the fuel level drops.

So now the airflow reverses through the canister back into the fuel tank. This does a couple of things: it relieves the vacuum condition inside the tank while also carrying some of the fuel vapors in the canister back to the fuel tank where they can eventually recombine with the fuel as the fuel tank cools.

However, if you tip the motorcycle over or overfill the fuel tank, you can get liquid fuel filling the canister. The liquid in the canister prevents air flow in both directions through the canister so the canister is effectively a blockage to the fuel tank vent.

Solution: remove the fuel canister, drain the liquid fuel out of the canister or wait a few days and hopefully the liquid in the canister will evaporate enough for the canister to again allow are/fuel vapors to pass through the canister or replace the canister with a new one.

However, once the canister has been filled with liquid fuel, it is usually no longer capable of absorbing any more fuel vapors as it absorbed all it could from the liquid fuel.

So after a tip over or a fuel tank overflow, the canister is useless for its intended purpose and if it still flows air, will just pass the fuel vapors out to the atmosphere.

The canister is an imperfect solution to a source of smog pollution.

For these reasons, most people just remove the canister and reroute the vent lines, usually to the airbox but some just allow the vent lines to vent to the air. Removing the canister saves a few pounds of weight but otherwise has no performance enhancing effect.
 
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Another advantage of living in the Peoples Republic of California. Those Greenies are coming ta get ya!

Ride Safe.
 

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I have heard EVAP on this as well, this happens to my bike on hot days, I definitely fill my tank up higher that 1 cm below the plate, I plan on removing the canister myself once I have a free weekend, I doubt the dealer would do anything about it because they cannot remove a "working" emission device off of a bike. Wasn't there one or two guys on the forum who had their bike shut down while riding because of the EVAP? that would be super scary in a tight turn, that happened to my buddy on his brand new MV and he was so unsettled by the situation that he traded the bike in.
 

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Similar experience here ~ 'c'pect the motor 'did' turn over - yet seemed like it was flooded (weird right? Fuel injection)

Gunna pull - scratch that -'modify'; nay, IMPROVE on the existing CA emissions system this weekend!

Thanks all for the post!
 
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