And so the break in shitfight starts.🍺🍿.
I'm on Yamaha's side.
I'm on Yamaha's side.
Trial of Temptation is Over!
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That's fine, but there was a vid sometime ago of testing factory v hard break in on 2 new Honda singles. They claimed that there was no significant wear difference in the rings and other wear items. But, being internet experts, they glossed over the large increase in ring gap. From memory it was around 10 to 15% greater. That indicates the service life of that engine was shortened by the hard break in.
That may not worry the first owner, but it will bite some poor bugger on the butt later on.
Hard break ins are fine if you don't give a damn about that, or you're a race team who doesn't have the time to do a proper break in. (They tend to rebuild engines far more often anyway).
This idea is why I'm reluctant to buy used bikes or high performance cars. I was lucky with my 09, I could only afford used then.
That may not worry the first owner, but it will bite some poor bugger on the butt later on.
Hard break ins are fine if you don't give a damn about that, or you're a race team who doesn't have the time to do a proper break in. (They tend to rebuild engines far more often anyway).
This idea is why I'm reluctant to buy used bikes or high performance cars. I was lucky with my 09, I could only afford used then.
Honda 250 single.Difference in ring gap could mean the hard break-in rings were more severely worn. Or it could suggest the soft break-in rings were showing a tighter gap because the rings never bedded in. They'd have to had measured both engines before and after running to really learn anything.
What kind of engine was it?
I'm sure it would have been obvious from the condition of the cross hatching on the bore if it had not bedded in. I'd also think that Honda are quite consistent in their engine building process. They're pretty much known for it, it's safe to assume that they do not build engines with a 15% variation in clearances.
And, the factory process has been designed to break in an engine properly. In all the new vehicles I've had, not one has given any indication that the bed in process did not work.
But this is the same old story. The idea that people who've never designed an engine in their lives know more than the engineers who design engines that spin over 12k rpm, meet all current emission standards, have a 2 - 3 year warranty and are expected to last beyond 100,000 kms with just routine maintenance.
I don't care about titles either. But I've seen the huge advances in engine design since 1965 when I first became interested in engines. We now have ordinary passenger vehicles capable of 150 - 200 hp per litre with long term reliability, something utterly impossible 60 years ago, or even 40. That's due to improved metallurgy and oil technology, and improved engine design by engineers to take advantage of that technology. In bike terms, my 1983 GPz 750 produced half the power of a modern 750.One of the biggest things I find annoying on the internet is the "ArE yOu An EnGiNeEr?!" Karens. It's a lazy way to shut down a conversation.
Do you know what mechanical engineering is? It's the science of recorded failures. We tried stuff, some of the stuff we built broke, and we kept notes. " Aw shit, that bridge fell....make a note for the next guy". Young kids pay good money to have access to those notes, and they get the title of Engineer in return. Spend a few years memorizing the hard knocks the old guys learned the hard way. Info sharing is great for society. Keeps things progressing vs constantly relearning.
You know who else has the same knowledge and understanding? Anyone interested and willing to educate themselves. Even if they didn't pay some school to brand them with a title.
Mr Honda didn't turn in his final college exam after completing it. The professor told him that he couldn't get his diploma if he didn't turn the exam in. Honda sent himself to school because he was horrible at metallurgy and his piston rings were garbage. After taking the exam, Honda recognized that he knew all the answers. "I came for knowledge, not a diploma. I have the knowledge I came to get".
If you saw the bullshit I have to fix because some engineer decided it was time to do things different, you'd maybe start having more respect for actual know-how vs dumping faith in bought titles.
That knowledge was passed on through traditional educational means. (engineering degrees)
Because there was no internet for the next forty years.
BTW, no one has all the answers. Hondas long standing problems with cam chain drives and rectifier problems showed that.
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