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Trial of Temptation is Over!

842 Views 22 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Lamarvelous
Through much resistance of very loud and convincing squid temptations, I have successfully completed a responsible 1000 mile break-in of my new MT09. LET THE FUN BEGIN!

HIP HIP HOORAY!
HIP HIP HOORAY!
HIP HIP HOORAY!


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That's fine, but there was a vid sometime ago of testing factory v hard break in on 2 new Honda singles. They claimed that there was no significant wear difference in the rings and other wear items. But, being internet experts, they glossed over the large increase in ring gap. From memory it was around 10 to 15% greater. That indicates the service life of that engine was shortened by the hard break in.
That may not worry the first owner, but it will bite some poor bugger on the butt later on.
Hard break ins are fine if you don't give a damn about that, or you're a race team who doesn't have the time to do a proper break in. (They tend to rebuild engines far more often anyway).
This idea is why I'm reluctant to buy used bikes or high performance cars. I was lucky with my 09, I could only afford used then.
Difference in ring gap could mean the hard break-in rings were more severely worn. Or it could suggest the soft break-in rings were showing a tighter gap because the rings never bedded in. They'd have to had measured both engines before and after running to really learn anything.

What kind of engine was it?
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Modern metallurgy and machining has changed the rules on us. I don't know if folks know how damn tough these coated aluminum bores are.

Old school cast iron bores? Hit em with the hard break-in. They need it. I've seen it too many times.

Modern coated bores? They're so hard wearing it doesn't matter.

I've seen nikasil bores literally still like new and the rings were so worn that they were in pieces. Too little or too much throttle during it's first few months won't phase it. The rings just don't bed in to the bores like they used to. Also, if the rings themselves wore down any measureable amount in the first few heat cycles.... they'd be completely worn away in a years time.

I'm not taking sides with either team. But with these modern engines, don't let one camp or the other worry you about if your engine is hurt because you or someone else maybe didn't break it in right. It's a CPR. You're golden 😁
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Honda 250 single.
I'm sure it would have been obvious from the condition of the cross hatching on the bore if it had not bedded in. I'd also think that Honda are quite consistent in their engine building process. They're pretty much known for it, it's safe to assume that they do not build engines with a 15% variation in clearances.
And, the factory process has been designed to break in an engine properly. In all the new vehicles I've had, not one has given any indication that the bed in process did not work.

But this is the same old story. The idea that people who've never designed an engine in their lives know more than the engineers who design engines that spin over 12k rpm, meet all current emission standards, have a 2 - 3 year warranty and are expected to last beyond 100,000 kms with just routine maintenance.
One of the biggest things I find annoying on the internet is the "ArE yOu An EnGiNeEr?!" Karens. It's a lazy way to shut down a conversation.

Do you know what mechanical engineering is? It's the science of recorded failures. We tried stuff, some of the stuff we built broke, and we kept notes. " Aw shit, that bridge fell....make a note for the next guy". Young kids pay good money to have access to those notes, and they get the title of Engineer in return. Spend a few years memorizing the hard knocks the old guys learned the hard way. Info sharing is great for society. Keeps things progressing vs constantly relearning.

You know who else has the same knowledge and understanding? Anyone interested and willing to educate themselves. Even if they didn't pay some school to brand them with a title.

Mr Honda didn't turn in his final college exam after completing it. The professor told him that he couldn't get his diploma if he didn't turn the exam in. Honda sent himself to school because he was horrible at metallurgy and his piston rings were garbage. After taking the exam, Honda recognized that he knew all the answers. "I came for knowledge, not a diploma. I have the knowledge I came to get".

If you saw the bullshit I have to fix because some engineer decided it was time to do things different, you'd maybe start having more respect for actual know-how vs dumping faith in bought titles.
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Very interesting. Thank you.

So there was a 5 ten thousandths difference in ring gap initially, and no ring gap afterwards.
Plus it was a shop built engine. Appears to be coated bores from the video. Thanks.
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