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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Back when many were reporting ticking/rattling ccts,I and a couple of others reported a different sound,more like a cyclical drumming/chirping that went away as the oil warmed up.I my case when the coolant reached 45 C.
I was almost certain that the noise only occurred after the first dealer service and was not there from new or after I did an oil change at 200 km.
Well my suspicions have been confirmed.It was the oil the dealer put in the bike (belray semisynthetic).I did an oil change a few days ago (10,000km) and used Motul 5100 and the noise is no longer there.
 

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It sounds likely that the noise was the oil pressure relief valve opening, or oil being pushed thru all the passages. With the thin cases this engine has, I'm amazed it is as quiet as it is.
Don't want to get into an oil debate, but if you take a look at this chart and find the SAE lines on it, you can see what happens to the viscosity when oil warms up.
e.g. SAE 10 oil at 80F is about 60 centistokes and SAE40 oil at 220F (fan kick on temperature) is about 12 centistokes. (4x as thick when cold)

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The noise was definitely from the cam chain/cct.When I first heard it I manually adjusted the cct before the oil was warm and could make the noise go away.Obviously the behaviour of the hydraulically assisted cct is affected by the cold viscosity of the engine oil.
I was never too concerned about the noise,as it always stopped when the oil temp rose above 45 C.
 

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Hydraulically assisted CCT ???
OK, I just looked in the manual and it shows an oil passage going to the CCT in the oil diagrams, but the CCT has only a joining gasket and no sign of a sealed passage going inside the CCT to deliver oil pressure to the device. (it would need o-rings or a small hole in the joint gasket)
I also think people have been adjusting their CCT's with the engine running by putting an Allen key down the inside of the device - which also suggests no oil pressure assist.

I'm not sure what that oil supply is doing, it may be a lube jet, but likely not a pressure supply to the CCT.
Interesting
 

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Cut to the Chase and replace with the ($89.) APE CCT. Life is too short to be f*@£ing around with your CCT on an ongoing basis. You've got your Suspension and a host of other Mod's to deal with.:)
 

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As a matter of fact, it IS hydraulically-assisted. They have been for a couple of decades...... :rolleyes:
 

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It sounds likely that the noise was the oil pressure relief valve opening, or oil being pushed thru all the passages. With the thin cases this engine has, I'm amazed it is as quiet as it is.
Don't want to get into an oil debate, but if you take a look at this chart and find the SAE lines on it, you can see what happens to the viscosity when oil warms up.
e.g. SAE 10 oil at 80F is about 60 centistokes and SAE40 oil at 220F (fan kick on temperature) is about 12 centistokes. (4x as thick when cold)

I would like to see a chart for multi grade oils...single grade oils like shown above dont really factor into this conversion as they are not used in this bike or pretty much any vehicles anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Cut to the Chase and replace with the ($89.) APE CCT. Life is too short to be f*@£ing around with your CCT on an ongoing basis. You've got your Suspension and a host of other Mod's to deal with.:)
Actually,no.
There is no problem with the cct on my bike.It has never ticked,rattled or made any other abnormal noises when the engine was up to temperature.I was never concerned with the cold sound because I was fairly sure it was an artifact of the cold performance of the Belray oil.

....and the suspension is fixed.

Also,the cct is hydraulically assisted.Alternatives like the APE product have to block the oil gallery to prevent pressure drop in the lubrication system.
 

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Paul, the way I think of it so many 09 CCTs have had issues that I can't trust the ones that haven't had trouble. So I replaced mine with an APE before I had trouble for peace of mind.

The APE does block the oil passage, the 09 CCT isn't their first CCT.
 

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Seems like the best fix of both worlds, is to leave the stock CCT in place, and remove the ability for it to "back out" loose with the set screw and cap/lock nut.

This way, it will still go tighter if the oil pressure pushes it, and yet, at lower rpm/pressure, it will not back off/out to the point where it's so loose it's noisy, and could potentially jump a tooth on the sprockets driving the cams.
 

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Seems like the best fix of both worlds, is to leave the stock CCT in place, and remove the ability for it to "back out" loose with the set screw and cap/lock nut.

This way, it will still go tighter if the oil pressure pushes it, and yet, at lower rpm/pressure, it will not back off/out to the point where it's so loose it's noisy, and could potentially jump a tooth on the sprockets driving the cams.
Agreed, and after having the original CCT replaced with the revised 3rd iteration of the CCT, I just re-installed my Fizzer Kit after hearing "the noise" again..
 

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Good information, thus further supporting my determination to keep my bike out of a dealership.
Amen to that.

I went to the dealer to buy some boots for my wife and talked to a guy in the parts department who was going to be moving over to service. While i was talking to him I started discussing the work I have been doing to my bike lately which happened to be my most recent oil change. He then began to discuss his excitement at finally learning how to work on bikes specifically being able to change his own oil. It was at that point I realized that my personal technique of taking it apart and figuring out how to put it together afterwards was a much safer form of maintenance than bringing it to the "professionals."
 

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Yeah, agreed. My bike is not a 'test bed' for the rookies to practice their skills on. That statement he made to you confirms my desire to NEVER let these fools touch my bike. Really? Finally learn how to change his own oil? Is there a simpler, more basic maintenance task to perform than an oil change? Sheesh. Trust my personal safety to these 'professionals'? No, I'm good...
 

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Yeah, agreed. My bike is not a 'test bed' for the rookies to practice their skills on. That statement he made to you confirms my desire to NEVER let these fools touch my bike. Really? Finally learn how to change his own oil? Is there a simpler, more basic maintenance task to perform than an oil change? Sheesh. Trust my personal safety to these 'professionals'? No, I'm good...
I like to find the places with a bunch of race bikes, used tires, and trophies in and around their shop, they tend to have the best prices and the most skilled mechanics.
 

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On mine the ticking was annoying but then became embarrassing then got very loud like about to break. I was done , and got on the throttle hard. Wheel spinning , wheelea , hard braking , riding it like it was part of me .At a red light the tick stopped and if it is there it is slight and not an issue. Reading about the r3 I notice the valves have a low speed carbon build up feature I will try to quote "= 12.75 degrees) to keep the combustion chamber compact. The valves feature an Isonite surface treatment on the stems for improved durability and wear resistance. They also feature carbon cutters on the stems to help reduce carbon build-up when the unit is being used for prolonged slow speed operation to maintain strong engine output." So , I think carbon build up was my ultimate problem , it was really loud ticking.
 

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On mine the ticking was annoying but then became embarrassing then got very loud like about to break. I was done , and got on the throttle hard. Wheel spinning , wheelea , hard braking , riding it like it was part of me .At a red light the tick stopped and if it is there it is slight and not an issue. Reading about the r3 I notice the valves have a low speed carbon build up feature I will try to quote "= 12.75 degrees) to keep the combustion chamber compact. The valves feature an Isonite surface treatment on the stems for improved durability and wear resistance. They also feature carbon cutters on the stems to help reduce carbon build-up when the unit is being used for prolonged slow speed operation to maintain strong engine output." So , I think carbon build up was my ultimate problem , it was really loud ticking.

It could still have been the CCT. High revs would increase the oil pressure, which in turn would increase the oil pressure assist the CCT has as a part of the self tensioning mechanism. They have been widely known to rattle like hell only to suddenly go quiet for no apparent reason. I would think you would only have carbon build up to that extreme if you constantly lugged the motor in too high a gear for several hundred miles. But if that's what caused your ticking and that fixed it, good on ya...:icon_thumright:
 

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I would like to believe that the CCT is hydraulically assisted, but I'm wondering how the oil pressure is delivered to the unit - is it teleported in there???
If someone can actually show me some proof then I will yield the point. Here is what I have seen.



The Tenere has hydraulic assist. So you would think that if the FZ09 had hydraulic assist, then the label makers would have put the correct label on the engine cutaway or shown oil passages in the component somehow. and if someone wants to buy that gasket - there is no oil hole in it.

As for the viscosity chart. If you want a chart that shows a multiweight oil line, you will need to provide it. Otherwise interpolate your own line, your guess will be close enough.
 
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There is no hydraulic assist for the tensioner on this engine ,The oil passage is there for lubrication of the mechanism and nothing else
 
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