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I think everything except the exhaust looks ok. IMHO I'd go with the scout over the Harley - I'd always choose a design with a few years under its belt over a brand new model/engine/design.
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 · (Edited)
did you all see the new 'Sportster S' supposed to have 120HP

IMHO the exhaust is a total nightmare on a bike that might otherwise look ok.
It's the same motor as the Pan America and what the Bronx was supposed to have. Nothing on that motor is the same as their conventional motors except that they're both V twins. Water cooled 60 degree V twin with separate connecting rods. It's well designed engine so it won't sound like a Harley and the Harley guys will still call it a girls bike. Probably won't sell either. An absolutely hysterical thing that I saw on the Harley website for this bike..............they list the horsepower (121) after decades of trying to sell everyone on torque being the only important factor which is what you must have to do when you build 1900 cc motors that make 80 HP.
 

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They posted this on the local riders group from my home area. Every single comment is basically people complaining it doesn't look like or follow the "heritage" of Harley, or complaining about the engine. It's like they all like being and looking exactly the same. They don't want to appeal to anyone except themselves, they long for the "good ol' days" whatever that means.
 

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Yeah, is this what it’s coming to? Now we’re going to redesign the bike every 50 years just for the sake of change??? What a drag, man!
 

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
Yeah, is this what it’s coming to? Now we’re going to redesign the bike every 50 years just for the sake of change??? What a drag, man!
You're being very generous. They've been using the basic design since 1929. That's 92 years. At least they finally changed to overhead valves.
 

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with Harley selling about as many bikes per year in the US as Honda and Yamaha combined….I doubt that they want to lose the base that loves their motorcycles.
 

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It comes with mid controls if you look at the pics.. lol almost every HD comes in mid control format as then you gotta pay the money for forward controls.
That's odd because it says 'forward controls' and they sell a mid control kit in the accessories section.
 

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Discussion Starter · #110 ·
It comes with mid controls if you look at the pics.. lol almost every HD comes in mid control format as then you gotta pay the money for forward controls.
They must be laughing when they write these brochures and ads. Unless they all have to act like they believe it in order to keep with corporate culture and not get fired.
"aggressive riding with sport bike agility and handling" Can you believe writing that with a straight face. Have you ever had a sportster bikes get racey with you on the road. With a recliner chair riding position and 30 degree rake and they added about 60 hp. Now they can get into situations where the bad handling happens at a faster pace.

They have the Pan America and they had the Bronx ready to go and then shut it down. It would have been a good bike. Instead they put the new motor in the same old chassis. Rather than strategizing that they still had their traditional lineup, let's work our asses off and get our new generation bikes established, no, let's double down on a product line that buyers are aging out and we're losing market share all the time. Eventually business schools will use Harley Davisdson as an example of how not to run a company.
 

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They must be laughing when they write these brochures and ads. Unless they all have to act like they believe it in order to keep with corporate culture and not get fired.
"aggressive riding with sport bike agility and handling" Can you believe writing that with a straight face.
Well we had a Mazda ad for the CX9 showing that POS passing sports bikes in the twisty's. That's fantasy level stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
“New motor in the same old chassis” ??

I’m no fan boy of Harley and this bike, but some of what you type is just nonsense. The only thing this bike shares with the previous sportser is the name.
If you think it's a revolutionary Harley, fine with me. I read all the specs and although it is not a new motor dropped into the old frame, it's still most of same old Harley design as far as I can see. Over 500 lbs., same 30 degree rake, same wheelbase, new weird size tires, Barcalounger riding position and less ground clearance then the original. They claim " Aggressive riding with sport bike agility and handling". The last time I checked, those specs ain't what any other manufacturers are using to make their sport bikes handle aggresively. So they designed a new bike that shares the same tired design concepts with the original. My mistake to not spell that out. They had a bike that was revolutionary for them in the Bronx and they killed it just before it went to market. Based on the reviews of the Pan America, that would have been an aggressive handling motorcycle. An MT 09 with the crappy stock suspension will out handle this thing any day of the week..... and outrun it in a straight line too....and for almost $5000 less.......and substantially more reliable.
 

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.and substantially more reliable.
This is yet to be seen - I've heard good things about the reliability of the Pan America over on the IBA forum, and those guys rack up the miles quickly. This having the same motor design, and slightly detuned (less HP) the reliability may actually be quite good. Harley has always gotten high marks for 'build quality' even if they were building unreliable 60yr old motors, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

I also have to give them credit - they're trying to move forward, without angering their current customer base - the bronx may still come, in a year or two after the market has become a little more used to the idea of a 'modern' HD.
 

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In the YouTube comments for the new Sportster intro, people seem pretty positive about it. It’s certainly different from HD’s usual fare (it really is), and it’s something they need to do to attract a new generation of buyers. Don’t give up on the Bronx just yet. They keep teasing several new projects in the next few years, so they may yet come out with a bike that appeals to people like us.

If you want to witness a real bitch fest, go over to Motorcycle Daily and read the comments. That place is full of people who hate absolutely everything that comes down the pike, no matter what it is. I don’t know why some of those guys even bother to read about motorcycles at all. If it’s not a carbon copy of a 1969 CB750 or a 1959 Triumph Bonneville, they won’t like it!

Don’t be like those guys.
 

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If you think it's a revolutionary Harley, fine with me. I read all the specs and although it is not a new motor dropped into the old frame, it's still most of same old Harley design as far as I can see. Over 500 lbs., same 30 degree rake, same wheelbase, new weird size tires, Barcalounger riding position and less ground clearance then the original. They claim " Aggressive riding with sport bike agility and handling". The last time I checked, those specs ain't what any other manufacturers are using to make their sport bikes handle aggresively. So they designed a new bike that shares the same tired design concepts with the original. My mistake to not spell that out. They had a bike that was revolutionary for them in the Bronx and they killed it just before it went to market. Based on the reviews of the Pan America, that would have been an aggressive handling motorcycle. An MT 09 with the crappy stock suspension will out handle this thing any day of the week..... and outrun it in a straight line too....and for almost $5000 less.......and substantially more reliable.
I've ridden Harleys since the AMF days, reliability has never been an issue, never left me stranded. Sure it's an outdated technology but the quality has always been at par or above any bike I've owned, I have owned many different brands. The new sportster is hot (pipes not). The new engine is a technological breakthrough for the HD company. Although their heavyweight bikes loss their appeal to me, I'm going to be bit more optimistic about their future. I don't want to see any American business fail.
 

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If you think it's a revolutionary Harley, fine with me. I read all the specs and although it is not a new motor dropped into the old frame, it's still most of same old Harley design as far as I can see. Over 500 lbs., same 30 degree rake, same wheelbase, new weird size tires, Barcalounger riding position and less ground clearance then the original. They claim " Aggressive riding with sport bike agility and handling".
You have to understand Harley code.
Aggressive handling is 25 degrees of lean and steering response of the Ever Given. Agility means what a pissed sloth on a hammock does.
Sport bike etc, means that the sports bike referred to is a Dyna.
In all seriousness, I ran the Harley rental dept for a few years, we had a mix of models but mainly tourers. They were quite reliable, but the biggest issue was picking up a stone and snapping the belt. There was an electronic problem that left a couple of bikes stranded. I can't remember the nature of the problem now.
 

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View attachment 165949

with Harley selling about as many bikes per year in the US as Honda and Yamaha combined….I doubt that they want to lose the base that loves their motorcycles.
Harley may still lead in unit sales but they are bleeding sales the past couple of years. Their sales have been down something like 20% per year. Their traditional buyer is ageing out and younger buyers don't have the desire to drop 25 large on a new bike.

The older riders that haven't stopped riding are more and more considering lighter bikes. Harley has painted themselves into the proverbial corner. Willie G made a sh$tton of money selling an image, they need a new plan and quick.
 

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I think the poor reliability thing comes mostly from all of bikes that have been worked on by all sorts of people with more beer than skill. And of course from the 'old' HD's which are about as reliable as any other 30+ year old MC. I've not heard of too many reliability issues with new, or properly serviced & maintained HD's.
 
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