Yamaha FZ-09 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I get a bit of wobble @117mph+, depending on conditions. Nothing immediately threatening but enough to make me back off the throttle. I want to fix this.

I was initially thinking of adding the GPR v5 damper (fits the XSR900 after modding the center tank panel a bit). But a friend suggested upgrading the suspension should reduce wobble as well. I had already been scoping the Ohlins STX 46. More expensive than the GPR v5 but if I want to upgrade the suspension anyway, AND it reduces the wobble significantly, it's actually cheaper in the long run.

Anyone have opinions / experience with this? Would I need to upgrade the front suspension too before making a real difference? Many monies involved so I'm trying to be strategic with this.

For what it's worth, I'll also be getting some clip-ons soon.
 

·
Registered
2019 Yamaha MT 10
Joined
·
747 Posts
My experience on my 2017 FJ 09 and advice to me was that a good rear shock will distribute weight forward and help eliminate the wobble. I found that I got it at 110 - 115 and after shock 125-130. It doesn't go away but it pushed it back. Interestingly, with aftermarket shock, it didn't wheelie as easily but was great handling. I rented a 2017 FZ 09 with that steering damper on it and road across the desert and there wasn't a hint of wobble but I'd do front suspension first.

My MT 10 has an electronically controlled steering damper and even though it's a shorter wheelbase then the 09, there's not a hint of shake at 150. This bike would wheelie sideways coming out of turns but again, the aftermarket rear shock tamed that.

FYI - K-Tech is every bit as good as Ohlins but $300 cheaper. Pays for a good chunk of a cartridge kit. Do you in fact, expect to ride above 125 often enough. Ohlins and the GPR V5 will cost $1675 vrs $1690 for K-Tech front and rear.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My experience on my 2017 FJ 09 and advice to me was that a good rear shock will distribute weight forward and help eliminate the wobble. I found that I got it at 110 - 115 and after shock 125-130. It doesn't go away but it pushed it back. Interestingly, with aftermarket shock, it didn't wheelie as easily but was great handling. I rented a 2017 FZ 09 with that steering damper on it and road across the desert and there wasn't a hint of wobble but I'd do front suspension first.

My MT 10 has an electronically controlled steering damper and even though it's a shorter wheelbase then the 09, there's not a hint of shake at 150. This bike would wheelie sideways coming out of turns but again, the aftermarket rear shock tamed that.

FYI - K-Tech is every bit as good as Ohlins but $300 cheaper. Pays for a good chunk of a cartridge kit. Do you in fact, expect to ride above 125 often enough. Ohlins and the GPR V5 will cost $1675 vrs $1690 for K-Tech front and rear.

This is all super helpful. I think I might actually do the K-Tech up front, and the Ohlins in back - skip the GPR v5 for now. The Ohlins shock is gonna be visible and compliment my bike's aesthetic better than the black and red K-Tech, and while I love hitting 125+ speeds, I'll be spending more time in the canyons than the highway. I can always circle back on the GPR if it's still an issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,533 Posts
My 2c which ive said before in other speed wobble threads...
Its caused by geometry and weight transfer.
When you accelerate, weight is transferred backwards.
The crap rear shock accentuates this.
When the weight goes back yhe rear shock compresses and the front forks extend, with less weight over the front wheel so it is only just in contact with the road, so it starts skipping and wobbling.
More weight on the front will fix it, and the rear shock is the easiest way to do that.

Also the k tech is not as good as the ohlins. K tech use a 36mm piston, almost everyone else, including ohlins, uses a 46mm piston.
 

·
Registered
2019 Yamaha MT 10
Joined
·
747 Posts
My 2c which ive said before in other speed wobble threads...
Its caused by geometry and weight transfer.
When you accelerate, weight is transferred backwards.
The crap rear shock accentuates this.
When the weight goes back yhe rear shock compresses and the front forks extend, with less weight over the front wheel so it is only just in contact with the road, so it starts skipping and wobbling.
More weight on the front will fix it, and the rear shock is the easiest way to do that.

Also the k tech is not as good as the ohlins. K tech use a 36mm piston, almost everyone else, including ohlins, uses a 46mm piston.
An who will notice the difference in 10 mm piston?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,533 Posts
An who will notice the difference in 10 mm piston?
Plenty of riders. In this instance, bigger is better.
Ktech use twin 36 shocks for their twin shock applications, and a single 36mm shock for their monoshocks.
Everyone else uses 46mm for monoshocks, so thats the industry standard, so the ktech 36mm piston is below standard.
So the ktech isn't as good as the ohlins.
Now, ive never owned an ohlins shock or a ktech shock- had a penske on my 2014s, and now have a tfx on my 2017 because they were both better bang for my buck when i bought them. Almost boght a ktech razor but went with tfx as it had a standard sized 46mm piston.
 

·
Registered
2020 MT-09
Joined
·
895 Posts
Bigger can be better and it can be over kill as well. Not to mention that larger number is only bigger if the internal shafts are the same diameter. I know in vehicle shocks you will find your larger body shocks have much larger shafts as they are designed for harsh use. I have seen shocks off different sizes hold the exact same amount of oil because of this. Then there's personal preference. A bigger shock will give faster rebound and depending on setup seem soft where the restrictions of the smaller body/valving can make for a more firm ride. Much like spring rates there are far more variables than size when determining which shock is right for you. Then of course there's your wallet and how deep you want to reach into it :) on a bike I don't see us using these bikes in a fashion that our ass could tell the difference if both were set up properly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Nah, not for me.... I'd be first questioning why yours does it and others doesn't.

My XSR900 was stable as a rock to 135 on standard suspension. So it's either you or the bike....

Is it down to the tyres ? Pressures, model, age.....

What settings on the shock now ?

What riding gear ? jacket ?
 

·
Registered
2019 Yamaha MT 10
Joined
·
747 Posts
I don't see Ohlins as the gold standard or as better than any others. It's the most well known. I had it on my Swedish Husqvarnas 35 years ago. Well known may make you more comfortable doesn't make it better. My local suspension guy is a dealer for Ohlins and K-tech, recommended K-Tech even when I wanted to spend more on the Ohlins. I've had K-Tech on 2 bikes now and it's killer. I researched the hell out of it because I was afraid to spend 2 K and not notice any improvement. Check out any race bike oriented forum and you'll see that people either don't know 1 brand or the other and also many posts where they say that both brands are amazing. If your need track bike quality suspension then your talking about an entirely different caliber of suspension that at least doubles in price. I have a seriously difficult time believing the forum people that claim their riding skills are just a notch below Rossi. It's a lot like football forums where people call modern day quarterbacks pussies. I'd like to see them go out and take a hit from a 310 pound lineman that runs as fast as running back did 20 years ago and see them pop up and smile. I'm an average rider and good suspension has been a revelation. Maybe I'm the only one, but I doubt I could tell the difference between a well set up Nitron, Ohlins, K-Tech plus more then a few Euro brands that we never even see over here. Personally I have no preference. Currently I'm waiting on Ohlins cartridges right now because I got a significant discount. My point being that I think there are quite a few brands that are equal or better. I'm so far from an expert but I do have some common sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Nah, not for me.... I'd be first questioning why yours does it and others doesn't.

My XSR900 was stable as a rock to 135 on standard suspension. So it's either you or the bike....

Is it down to the tyres ? Pressures, model, age.....

What settings on the shock now ?

What riding gear ? jacket ?
I'm biasing toward what Keef mentioned about geometry / weight. I'm a heavier rider for the bike at 215-220lbs, 6' 2", and I have the stock shock set to the stiffest setting.

I did notice significant wobble increase after getting new Dunlops Roadsmart 3's. That was mostly addressed after swapping those out for some Michelin Road 5's. I'm going back to the Bridgestone Battlax's (s22's) next week and will have the shop test my steering head in case that's just too loose. Process of elimination at this point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
I never had a speed wobble on the FZ until I got new tires. I found anything higher than 34-35psi and the thing was incredibly wobbly at speed. Once I lowered the air pressure down to 30-32 psi or so, the problem went away immediately.
 

·
Registered
2016 XSR900 60th Anniv. Edition
Joined
·
2,375 Posts
This subject comes up a lot, and I just wanted to point out that steering dampers will not fix the problem. They only mask a problem that’s already there. You simply should not be experiencing this wobble if your motorcycle is set up properly and your riding style is correct.

You should first figure out what the problem is with your bike or your riding without using a damper. Lots of ideas in this (and many other) thread. Then, after you have it fixed, you can mount that damper in case you get really out of shape sometime, which is what they’re for...
 

·
Registered
2020 MT-09
Joined
·
895 Posts
I'm biasing toward what Keef mentioned about geometry / weight. I'm a heavier rider for the bike at 215-220lbs, 6' 2", and I have the stock shock set to the stiffest setting.

I did notice significant wobble increase after getting new Dunlops Roadsmart 3's. That was mostly addressed after swapping those out for some Michelin Road 5's. I'm going back to the Bridgestone Battlax's (s22's) next week and will have the shop test my steering head in case that's just too loose. Process of elimination at this point.
I'd evaluate your riding position as well. I too am a "bigger" rider at 6' 260 but as long as I keep soft hands and loose arms I've never had an issue at speed. If I get lazy with my legs gripping the tank and start tensing my arms I can induce some wobble. I know tire pressures can help too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,533 Posts
I agree with moto 26- a damper is the finishing touch, and shouldnt be a band aid to cover up the problem.
@ThunderMuffin , we are about the same height, I'm maybe 10lbs lighter. Any rear shock will make a massive difference.
Sitting closer to the tank, rather than back near the pillion seat will help too.
Whatever you can do to get weight over the front will help. Suspension parts cost money, sitting differently or dropping the forks is free to try.
 

·
Registered
2019 Yamaha MT 10
Joined
·
747 Posts
I'd evaluate your riding position as well. I too am a "bigger" rider at 6' 260 but as long as I keep soft hands and loose arms I've never had an issue at speed. If I get lazy with my legs gripping the tank and start tensing my arms I can induce some wobble. I know tire pressures can help too.
I'm found the same thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This subject comes up a lot, and I just wanted to point out that steering dampers will not fix the problem. They only mask a problem that’s already there. You simply should not be experiencing this wobble if your motorcycle is set up properly and your riding style is correct.

You should first figure out what the problem is with your bike or your riding without using a damper. Lots of ideas in this (and many other) thread. Then, after you have it fixed, you can mount that damper in case you get really out of shape sometime, which is what they’re for...
I had a similar thought, worried I would just be treating symptoms and not causes with a damper. Hypothetically, if not's my riding position / grip (which it very well could be), what mechanical issues would lead to the wobbs? I'm already having my shop check the steering head for looseness. Anything else while I'm at it?
 

·
Registered
2019 Yamaha MT 10
Joined
·
747 Posts
This subject comes up a lot, and I just wanted to point out that steering dampers will not fix the problem. They only mask a problem that’s already there. You simply should not be experiencing this wobble if your motorcycle is set up properly and your riding style is correct.

You should first figure out what the problem is with your bike or your riding without using a damper. Lots of ideas in this (and many other) thread. Then, after you have it fixed, you can mount that damper in case you get really out of shape sometime, which is what they’re for...
I always assumed that wobble was something that just comes with naked bikes. 3 of my last 4 bikes (all naked) had head shake. My current MT 10 has none but also has a standard electronic damper control. With a 55.1" wheelbase I'm thinking it must be bad if they had to make a damper stock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,533 Posts
Naked bikes are more prone to it because of how people sit on them. Race replica, clip ons, leaning forward, more weight on the front. Naked bike, big wide bars, people send to sit up and back, less weight on the front.
I have done a couple California superbike schools, and the one thing that comes to mind is this story that the instructor told.
Everyone has seen a racing crash where the rider loses control, bars slapping back and forth, bike going back and forth, then the rider get flicked off, and once the rider gets flicked off, the bike straightens up and proceeds down the track, straight and stable.
Bike with rider, dangerously unstable. Bike, no rider, very stable.
It is our input, consciously or unconsciously, that creates instability.
 

·
Registered
2019 Yamaha MT 10
Joined
·
747 Posts
Naked bikes are more prone to it because of how people sit on them. Race replica, clip ons, leaning forward, more weight on the front. Naked bike, big wide bars, people send to sit up and back, less weight on the front.
I have done a couple California superbike schools, and the one thing that comes to mind is this story that the instructor told.
Everyone has seen a racing crash where the rider loses control, bars slapping back and forth, bike going back and forth, then the rider get flicked off, and once the rider gets flicked off, the bike straightens up and proceeds down the track, straight and stable.
Bike with rider, dangerously unstable. Bike, no rider, very stable.
It is our input, consciously or unconsciously, that creates instability.
so you're accusing us of being unstable?
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top