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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am planning on adding the M4 slip on, smog block off plates, and a high flow air filter. So the bike does not run like complete crap after I do this, what would be a better option? If I can get similar results out of a PCV I would rather do that instead of shipping off my ecu and having to wait.
 

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Well, the PCV is much more expensive.

And you'd have to get some dyno time $$$$.

And the PCV isn't capable of timing, rideability improvements, changing fan temps...

I dunno. Most guys with PCVs sell them, and then get a good flash.
 

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You want the most out of your bike, I would recommend a reflash to remove all the restrictions + a custom Dyno tune using a PCV will give you the best over all results. 90% of riders don't use a PCV for what it is intended for & that is a custom Dyno map tuned for your own bike.
 

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A flash is $80. And will give you 98% of what a PCV can give you. And many things it cannot.

A PCV alone is $300, dyno time $200?? And will give you about 60-70% of what a flash will, even with a fully custom map.

I've yet to see a custom map that gives more than maybe 2% more performance over a flash, yet it yields nothing in terms of reprogramming the ECU to remove all of the factory restrictions, that make the bike ride poorer.

I know it sucks to be down for 5 days and all... But honestly I think it is worth it.

The best solution is a PCV and Flash... I just have a hard time with the numbers, I cannot justify about $500 to gain 2% from this bike, when I operate it at a max of 75% on the street anyway.
 

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If you had read my post I use both a reflash + custom map tunning using a PCV & would recommend both tunning aids if one can afford it.

I have never seen a shared flash work on every bike in the world with different fuels, altitudes & humidity levels, a custom tune for your own bike will always give the best results at every RPM & throttle points, this where most rides go wrong it is not about the HP gains using a PCV, is not a performance mod, it is used to correct the A/F ratio in over 400 fuel table points so you get the most out of the tune it is about the ridability after a custom map not HP.

I Dyno every bike I own & have been doing it for decades & build custom maps few times a years as I know the rewards first hand it is not only about HP gains it is about rideability. Some say it is not worth the money I say it is worth every penny, I will be back on the Dyno next week for custom remapping with both my MT09 & 1290.

If you want some numbers from my last custom tune here is a before & after runs by only correcting the A/F ratio, the whole map was done in every fuel cell using tunning link software. The improvement at part throttles across the whole map is massive.



Torque

 

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as stated its about what you want and what your willing to do or spend to get it

a pcv with a generic downloaded from the dyno jet web site, you are probably not going to be happy with. I am not sure who makes most of those maps but anyone that I ever checked was way off. If you are not going to get a custom tune then I would not do the pcv. Many people chase their tails after doing this trying to get their bike to run correctly.

Even custom tunes can be off. Most dyno tunes are only at 100% throttle and even at 100% throttle ive seen some "custom tunes" that were pretty bad

this is why im big on tuning while riding the bike across the throttle and rpm range in real world conditions.

Any map not created on your bike is a generic map. It may work awesome or may work like crap. A couple advantges with the fz09 is that the bikes are new so there havent been 10 different people working on it changing things and the bike has a fairly wide sweet spot for air/fuel ratio.

There is also the option of getting the flash and I can send you a good base fuel map to start a custom tune with. You could then get that map tuned for your bike. If you wanted when the riding season is over you could then send me back your ecu with a copy of the custom map and I could add it to the ecu. Then you could remove the pcv and sell it. It is more work but your final cost for a fully custom tuned motorcycle would be as cheap as it possibly could be.

remember reflashes are free just pay my return shipping on the reflash

there is no difference in performance running the map in the pcv vs the ecu.

hope this helps
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you everyone for your input. My plan was to just download a generic map for the PCV if I went that route. Looks like the flash is a way better option for me, and I'll do that when the rainy seasons begins.
 

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Both here with the addition of an Auto Tune. My bike rocks and can make adjustments up to 4%. Flash for sure, first.
 

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Both here with the addition of an Auto Tune. My bike rocks and can make adjustments up to 4%. Flash for sure, first.
Doug. Do you keep the auto tune in and running all the time? I read elsewhere in the site that the wide band O2 sensor is only good for about 50 hours of use. that seemed ridiculously low to me.
 

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I do, and that is news to me. Just did some research and wideband sensors last 40-80 hrs on a bike. I already have 4 maps saved for each season of the year, so it looks like I will be removing it, capping it off, and using it only when I need to make adjustments.
 

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I can't see why a Bosch O2 sensor does not last 60000 miles if the A/F ratio are all OK on the bike & the correct fuels are been used, the sensor that is used by Dyno jet are also used in cars it is a well know sensor. I have work in the motor industry bikes & car for 35 years & have never heard of a O2 sensor only lasting 50hrs unless there was a problem with contamination or poor fuelling.
 

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Or you just get an ecu flash from a company that has everything included and no fuel programmer is needed at all aka the stoltec/2wheeldynoworks flash that is all inclusive.
 

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One thing I can comment on I know 100% the base re-flashed ECU maps built in the US on US fuels do not run at the correct A/F ratio's on Australian fuels, I know this because I have built my custom PCV Dyno maps based off the re-flashed maps from the US using Flash tune software.
 

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Or you just get an ecu flash from a company that has everything included and no fuel programmer is needed at all aka the stoltec/2wheeldynoworks flash that is all inclusive.
So if I get the exhaust and all that stuff, Nels can tune the ECU without a Power Commander? I was planning on saving up and getting all of that stuff then going in to see him.
 

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I do, and that is news to me. Just did some research and wideband sensors last 40-80 hrs on a bike.
That seems a bit ridiculous...What reasons were given on the article you read? There has to be something wrong with the controller(whatever is pulling information from the sensor) to jack up the sensor in that short of time, unless you're exclusively running race gas or other heavily leaded fuel or funky additives. \

Unless something's up with the controller, or some electronic quirk exclusive to motorcycles overs in particular is causing issues (and if this really is true then it's likely something causing the heater element within the o2 to fail prematurely), there should be no reason standard contaminants/egt would burn out a modern o2 in a couple thousand miles on standard fuel.



OP, go with a flash first, then if you must, I guess go for a pcv after if your budget allows for a specific dyno-tune(though for what you're doing I wouldn't advise that as being necessary).

Though that advice varies: I've never really looked into what all you can control with a PCV. Cause if it's $400 and all it does is fuel it's an absolute rip off, forget that noise...if it allows you to alter ignition timing then it's definitely solid cause you can get some legitimate benefit out of a proper dyno tune.
 

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One thing I can comment on I know 100% the base re-flashed ECU maps built in the US on US fuels do not run at the correct A/F ratio's on Australian fuels, I know this because I have built my custom PCV Dyno maps based off the re-flashed maps from the US using Flash tune software.
you are 100% correct, the aussies have something different with the fuel compared to the US. it would be highly recommended to have your bike baselined on a dyno after a flash to verify the air fuel ratio.

So if I get the exhaust and all that stuff, Nels can tune the ECU without a Power Commander? I was planning on saving up and getting all of that stuff then going in to see him.
define "all that stuff"? basically regardless of what you have, he creates custom flashes for as many modifications/exhausts as he can with what shows up at the shop. so custom fueling is included if you have the same modifications/exhausts which means you do not need a fuel programmer. also, the flashes include free upgrades when you do change to a different exhaust, if he has that file, he can reflash it for free, all it costs you is shipping.

That seems a bit ridiculous...What reasons were given on the article you read? There has to be something wrong with the controller(whatever is pulling information from the sensor) to jack up the sensor in that short of time, unless you're exclusively running race gas or other heavily leaded fuel or funky additives. \

Unless something's up with the controller, or some electronic quirk exclusive to motorcycles overs in particular is causing issues (and if this really is true then it's likely something causing the heater element within the o2 to fail prematurely), there should be no reason standard contaminants/egt would burn out a modern o2 in a couple thousand miles on standard fuel.

OP, go with a flash first, then if you must, I guess go for a pcv after if your budget allows for a specific dyno-tune(though for what you're doing I wouldn't advise that as being necessary).

Though that advice varies: I've never really looked into what all you can control with a PCV. Cause if it's $400 and all it does is fuel it's an absolute rip off, forget that noise...if it allows you to alter ignition timing then it's definitely solid cause you can get some legitimate benefit out of a proper dyno tune.
generally the autotuner programmers fail, they're too slow to keep up with the actual changes of the bike so its constantly lagging behind. you're at 8k rpms and its changing fuel for 7k rpms if that makes sense. not right away but they generally dont last long term.

remember the flashing is only recently become available. "just" a fuel tune, gives you a very smooth ride with more power and absolutely is worth it. ignition modules were also available so you'd get at least fuel + timing but with the advancement in the ecu hacking, we're getting spoiled with the awesome customization that some companies are allowing tuners to have. remember first flash programs were by companies that allowed no control, you got what they gave you. now we have the ability to do almost everything ourselves. so, it wasn't a rip off, we just have advanced to much better abilities to tune
 

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define "all that stuff"? basically regardless of what you have, he creates custom flashes for as many modifications/exhausts as he can with what shows up at the shop. so custom fueling is included if you have the same modifications/exhausts which means you do not need a fuel programmer. also, the flashes include free upgrades when you do change to a different exhaust, if he has that file, he can reflash it for free, all it costs you is shipping.

Apologies, by "all that stuff" I mean exhaust, air filter, and block off plates.
 

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generally the autotuner programmers fail, they're too slow to keep up with the actual changes of the bike so its constantly lagging behind. you're at 8k rpms and its changing fuel for 7k rpms if that makes sense. not right away but they generally dont last long term.
I agree the an autotuner can not keep up when the revs get high or fast throttle movements, I did a whole lot of tests between custom mapping & my A/T-300 Auto Tune, results are here is anyone is interested scroll to the top of the page 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps - Page 12 - KTM Super Twins Forum
 
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