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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
can someone explain why you still need a pc with a reflash??? I have noticed a lot of people on here have had both...I have a custom tune on my truck so if I get my bike dynode and programmed wouldn't that take care of it???
 

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My understanding is if the flash you get has fueling included then you wouldn't need the pcv. I think the people who have both are the ones who flashed for throttle maps without fueling.
 

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Correct. My flash took care of a couple of issues, fuel cut for one. I did not get a custom map, but I use a PCV with Auto Tune to constantly change my fuel map for various conditions.
 

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yes its either for people that did not use the flash for fuel control, or for people that want to get a true custom fuel map for their bike. You could always later flash the map into the ecu and remove the pcv.

im personally not a fan of the pcv making constant changes I do not think its needed or beneficial. I am a fan of the pcv being used to make fuel maps, though even that requires a deliberate effort to get a good consistent map
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
think im understanding better......question now is will a pcv make a big difference with say a graves exhaust or will the bike be fine without the tuner....if I cant feel it in the seat of pants im not interested in getting a pcv if I can just strap on a pipe...also can I use the block off plates without the re-flash or is that just a waste ???
 

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think im understanding better......question now is will a pcv make a big difference with say a graves exhaust or will the bike be fine without the tuner....if I cant feel it in the seat of pants im not interested in getting a pcv if I can just strap on a pipe...also can I use the block off plates without the re-flash or is that just a waste ???
I think you have to do a bit of research into what each product actually does, before making decisions to purchase or install them.

I would never install any exhaust without a tuner. Simply strapping on a pipe will get you by, but at the expense of the longevity of your engine, and also at the expense of your power delivery and running conditions. You are changing the setup of the engine, even just by changing the exhaust. The pipes that spit flames and backfire dont just look boss, the engines they are attached to will ultimately suffer from running wrong. Of course if you are a throw away bike type of dude and change your bike every couple years, this wont concern you as someone else will be dealing with those issues later on lol.

The PCV isnt there to give you any more "feel in the seat of your pants" as a first call, it is there to ensure that your engine is running at the most optimal configuration it can be, given the modifications that have been done to the engine and exhaust system. You can add the PCV even without any changes at all, simply a stock bike, and you will feel a better result than stock. All modern fuel injected bikes will benefit from a PCV or similar. And dyno tuning further amplifies that improvement. With the right tune/exhaust/configuration..........the PCV will in turn help increase performance, but it is noticeable even on a stock bike. But its function is not to simply increase power or performance, it is to compliment your modifications and work in conjunction with those changes to help increase power and performance.

Which leads to my next point........the block off plates. The block off plates have nothing to do with performance at all.........well they do in a way, but not as directly as you may think. What this does, is stops fresh air being added to your exhaust stream. Which in turn allows precise tuning on the dyno due to not diluting your exhaust gas with fresh air. The dyno tuner wants to know whats happening with your combustion cycles and air/fuel ratio, not be thrown off by false readings due to the air injection system. The block off plates will also stop any popping from the exhaust, stock or aftermarket. One function of the air injection system is to help burn off unburnt gases by increasing the temp in your exhaust..........by adding fresh air. Which to me, only means one thing. Making it lean. Which is the reason most feel a lean surge whilst cruising, as the bike is leaning out whilst the air system does its thing. No thanks.

You can use the block off plates at any time you want, with no ill effects at all. I suggest installing whilst installing the PCV, as you are in the same area of the engine anyway. Takes an extra 30 minutes maybe to install the plates if you are doing the PCV too, less if you are super handy with your mechanics.

I have the ECUunleashed flash, PCV with O2 optimizer (no autotune), Graves block off plates and M4 exhaust. My bike runs so perfectly now it is ridiculous to think it is even the same motorcycle that I bought originally. Twice as smooth, twice as fun. I only got the ECU flash, to remove all the restrictions that Yamaha put in. No fueling changes at all, I wanted to leave that up to the PCV. So the ECU flash for me, was to ensure that once I added the PCV, that I was getting the most I can possibly get from my investment. And that will only better itself again, once I dyno tune. The PCV will only change your fuel management..........................if your ECU still has some restrictions, such as the timing retards that are evident in the first couple gears with the stock ECU, the PCV wont fix that. And you wont be getting everything you could be getting from the advantages of having a PCV.

If you know exactly what exhaust you want, and are never going to have it dyno tuned...........a simple reflash with fuel mapping changes may be the way to go. But if you were like I was, and I was undecided on exhaust and if I wanted to dyno tune................ I didnt want to block myself from being able to do anything in future. With my setup now, I can change exhausts whenever I please for a different one (and they wont backfire), and dyno tune whenever I please (and will get a precise and accurate tune).

I like to have options.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Awesome write up thanks, I have decided which route to go and the plates have already been ordered, figured as much when I saw the install no since in doing it twice...
 

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Loosen the radiator when doing those block off plates.

I thought I could get away with not doing so, and wasted about another 20 minutes mucking about. Less than 1 minute to loosen the radiator, less than 2 minutes later I had the whole air injection system removed. I turned my small job, into a longer job, by being lazy.

Learn from my lazy mistake lol!!!!!!
 

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great post very informative

only thing I think is incorrect is that the AIS makes the motor lean. The AIS does nothing to the actual air fuel ratio coming into the motor. It does makes the exhaust gas appear as if the engine is running a leaner mixture then it is. As you said it injects fresh air into the exhasut port. I think of it as diluting the existing exhaust gas. Emmisions are measured in part per million or ppm, by injecting fresh air they dilute the emmisions. When you add fresh oxygenated air into a hot exhaust if there is any unburnt fuel it will ignite causing the popping heard on decel when the ais is active.

still a great post and it illustrates a extremely important point the when modding any bike all the mods should work together. There are always different ways to skin the cat and you should always choose the one that suits your wants the best.


I think you have to do a bit of research into what each product actually does, before making decisions to purchase or install them.

I would never install any exhaust without a tuner. Simply strapping on a pipe will get you by, but at the expense of the longevity of your engine, and also at the expense of your power delivery and running conditions. You are changing the setup of the engine, even just by changing the exhaust. The pipes that spit flames and backfire dont just look boss, the engines they are attached to will ultimately suffer from running wrong. Of course if you are a throw away bike type of dude and change your bike every couple years, this wont concern you as someone else will be dealing with those issues later on lol.

The PCV isnt there to give you any more "feel in the seat of your pants" as a first call, it is there to ensure that your engine is running at the most optimal configuration it can be, given the modifications that have been done to the engine and exhaust system. You can add the PCV even without any changes at all, simply a stock bike, and you will feel a better result than stock. All modern fuel injected bikes will benefit from a PCV or similar. And dyno tuning further amplifies that improvement. With the right tune/exhaust/configuration..........the PCV will in turn help increase performance, but it is noticeable even on a stock bike. But its function is not to simply increase power or performance, it is to compliment your modifications and work in conjunction with those changes to help increase power and performance.

Which leads to my next point........the block off plates. The block off plates have nothing to do with performance at all.........well they do in a way, but not as directly as you may think. What this does, is stops fresh air being added to your exhaust stream. Which in turn allows precise tuning on the dyno due to not diluting your exhaust gas with fresh air. The dyno tuner wants to know whats happening with your combustion cycles and air/fuel ratio, not be thrown off by false readings due to the air injection system. The block off plates will also stop any popping from the exhaust, stock or aftermarket. One function of the air injection system is to help burn off unburnt gases by increasing the temp in your exhaust..........by adding fresh air. Which to me, only means one thing. Making it lean. Which is the reason most feel a lean surge whilst cruising, as the bike is leaning out whilst the air system does its thing. No thanks.

You can use the block off plates at any time you want, with no ill effects at all. I suggest installing whilst installing the PCV, as you are in the same area of the engine anyway. Takes an extra 30 minutes maybe to install the plates if you are doing the PCV too, less if you are super handy with your mechanics.

I have the ECUunleashed flash, PCV with O2 optimizer (no autotune), Graves block off plates and M4 exhaust. My bike runs so perfectly now it is ridiculous to think it is even the same motorcycle that I bought originally. Twice as smooth, twice as fun. I only got the ECU flash, to remove all the restrictions that Yamaha put in. No fueling changes at all, I wanted to leave that up to the PCV. So the ECU flash for me, was to ensure that once I added the PCV, that I was getting the most I can possibly get from my investment. And that will only better itself again, once I dyno tune. The PCV will only change your fuel management..........................if your ECU still has some restrictions, such as the timing retards that are evident in the first couple gears with the stock ECU, the PCV wont fix that. And you wont be getting everything you could be getting from the advantages of having a PCV.

If you know exactly what exhaust you want, and are never going to have it dyno tuned...........a simple reflash with fuel mapping changes may be the way to go. But if you were like I was, and I was undecided on exhaust and if I wanted to dyno tune................ I didnt want to block myself from being able to do anything in future. With my setup now, I can change exhausts whenever I please for a different one (and they wont backfire), and dyno tune whenever I please (and will get a precise and accurate tune).

I like to have options.
 

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I was slightly concerned at my bike running lean if I added the mods that have arrived for it. After reading the above post, tomorrow the Graves plates, PCV & DNA air filter are all going in. I'll d/l the map that's suited to my pipe & filter & it should be safe until I get it dyno'd.

@Poogamer69 thanks for the info mate :)
 

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Awesome write up thanks, I have decided which route to go and the plates have already been ordered, figured as much when I saw the install no since in doing it twice...
If you go with an exhaust, you need to adjust the AFR. Since you don't seems to be too picky like some of us :) Go either with a tuner (EJK, PCV) or a flash with fuel map close to your exhaust. That should make your "butt dyno" feel just fine.
 
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