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not enough torque at low rpm

14K views 51 replies 19 participants last post by  gmtech16450yz 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello

Couple days ago just picked up almost new 1400KM 2019 MT-09 SP, with full carbon akra. Been riding Street Triple 675 for almost 10 years for almost 120,000KM, I remember in 2016, I picked up mt-09 but not really keen on the riding position, suspension.

But now after tried couple a days with this 2019 mt-09 sp, I found a new love. :love:

My question about this bike, in low rpm below 4000, I feel not enough torque, ie: with street triple you can run 60Km/h on 6th gear nicely, could it be because of the full system akra?
I vaguely remember when I had 2016 MT with standard can, the torque curve about the same as street triple, it can happily run 60km/h on 6th gear.

Many Thanks, no doubt I will have so many questions for this beautiful bike.
Jim
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#4 ·
Congrats on the new baby! These things I’ve noticed don’t like hanging out below 4000 and are more comfortable between 5-6k. I very rarely have put it in 6th gear
 
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#7 ·
WHAT?????

Granted this is with my own tuning but my '19 will cleanly pull up into the revs from as low as 2,200 rpm at around 30mph in 6th gear. I run in 6th gear basically whenever I'm cruising around over 40mph. The most amazing thing about these motors is they're happy to be in ANY of it's 6 gears while on the freeway at 60. (Of course you wouldn't want to cruise along in 1st on the freeway, that's not my point.) There aren't very many engines that have usable power from 2k to 12k like these CP3's do. If your bike "doesn't like hanging out below 4k rpm", there's something wrong with it or you. lol.
 
#6 ·
My question about this bike, in low rpm below 4000, I feel not enough torque, ie: with street triple you can run 60Km/h on 6th gear nicely, could it be because of the full system akra?
I vaguely remember when I had 2016 MT with standard can, the torque curve about the same as street triple, it can happily run 60km/h on 6th gear.
Beautiful bike, love that color combination.
Why are you riding 60km/h (37mph) in 6th gear? Maybe downshift 3-4 gears and use more of the bikes rev range, by its very design nature this motor loves to operate at or above 5k rpm (4k rpm if you are feeling very conservative).
I know that the owners manual shows those ridiculously low shift points but try doubling those recommendations and see how much better the bike feels.

According to the manual, the shift points are:
1st to 2nd- 12 mph
2nd to 3rd- 19 mph
3rd to 4th- 25 mph
4th to 5th- 31 mph
5th to 6th- 37 mph
 
#11 ·
I gotta wonder sometimes about stuff I see posted on forums.
Look at the times posted for these bikes. Do they look like they are from a bike that doesn't have enough torque.

 
#12 ·
Jim, the torque you feel at the rear wheel is a combination of engine torque, gearing in the gearbox and gearing of the final drive chain. The Triumph might be sufficiently low-geared to allow 60kph in 6th gear, whereas the MT-09 is not. As others have said, use a lower gear for 60kph.
My experience of riding the small Triumph triples is that they rev higher than the Yamaha and can therefore be lower-geared.
 
#14 ·
Jim, the torque you feel at the rear wheel is a combination of engine torque, gearing in the gearbox and gearing of the final drive chain. The Triumph might be sufficiently low-geared to allow 60kph in 6th gear, whereas the MT-09 is not. As others have said, use a lower gear for 60kph.
My experience of riding the small Triumph triples is that they rev higher than the Yamaha and can therefore be lower-geared.
you're absolutely right, the gearing with street triple is 16 - 47,
 
#13 ·
Many thanks, overwhelmed by the responses, appreciate it.

The seller said that he wasn't sure about the ecu flash, the akra was factory fitted, so I assume it's still stock ecu.

I really love this bike, oh my, I owned 2018 Street Triple RS and nowhere near as fun as this bike.

One quick question, if I want to flash the ECU any suggestion? Previously for Street Triple 1st generation I can download free software TuneECU and flash it my self.

I have done some reading regarding mt-09 ecu flash, and found this video about dynojet power vision 3 any thought about this?

Cheers
 
#19 ·
In the first 3 gears on the flat around town I might get in the 3000-3500 rpm range. All other gears I stay above 4k on the flat easy going roads. Anywhere else I stay between 4-5k. If in a hurry shift at about 7-8k.

Vcyclenut flashed my ecu a couple years ago after I mostly rode around in B mode for about 3 years which I think is smoother on mountain twisty roads. He changed the fan on switch plus other things I can no longer remember. Turn around was quick and I like my FZ09 better now. I left A mode alone, B mode alone, my flash parameters were made to STD so I get that whenever I turn on the bike. I have 4 bikes and totaled 9021 miles last year, 3453 were on the FZ which got the most of the 4. I didn't think worry about cost as I planned to keep riding it till at least 75, 3 years to go, maybe more.
 
#26 ·
Ok I know the graph I'm going to post below might be a little like gobbly-**** to many of you but it's how you quantify things with data vs. "feelings" or "butt dynos". On my ride today I purposely accelerated in 6th gear from a low speed and with little throttle.

What the log shows is I was cruising along in 6th gear at 34mph- 2,400 rpm and 1.2% throttle blades opening. I accelerated with the throttle plates at ~36%, not even close to half throttle. I let off at 70mph/4,800rpm. It took about 4 seconds to accelerate from 34mph to 70mph in 6th gear.

So what does all that mean? These bikes when tuned properly can pull like a mofo in 6th gear even as low as 2,400rpm. 4 seconds to double your speed from a super low rpm like that is pretty damn good. Just thought some of you would appreciate the actual data.

(speed in the log is shown in kph btw. 55kph is 34.2mph.)

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#34 ·
What the log shows is I was cruising along in 6th gear at 34mph- 2,400 rpm and 1.2% throttle blades opening. I accelerated with the throttle plates at ~36%, not even close to half throttle. I let off at 70mph/4,800rpm. It took about 4 seconds to accelerate from 34mph to 70mph in 6th gear.
This is amazing to cruise on 6th gear at that low rpm, my bike can't do that.
 
#27 ·
To help put the 4 seconds in some sort of perspective, it takes a VERY fast car to go from 60 to 100mph in 4 seconds. The average car usually takes somewhere around 6 to 10 seconds to do a 60-100 pull. I think a Prius takes about 25 seconds. lol. My 800+hp roadster would do 60-100 in 2.75 seconds. My MT-09 would do 60-100 in roughly 3.5 seconds bone stock when I first got it. It now does 60-100 in exactly the same time my roadster did, ~2.7 seconds. That's F'ing quick. That's Hypercar quick.

So it only taking 4 seconds to go from 35 to 70mph when you're in the very bottom of the engine's power range and the bike's tallest gear is pretty impressive.
 
#28 ·
To help put the 4 seconds in some sort of perspective, it takes a VERY fast car to go from 60 to 100mph in 4 seconds. The average car usually takes somewhere around 6 to 10 seconds to do a 60-100 pull. I think a Prius takes about 25 seconds. lol. My 800+hp roadster would do 60-100 in 2.75 seconds. My MT-09 would do 60-100 in roughly 3.5 seconds bone stock when I first got it. It now does 60-100 in exactly the same time my roadster did, ~2.7 seconds. That's F'ing quick. That's Hypercar quick.

So it only taking 4 seconds to go from 35 to 70mph when you're in the very bottom of the engine's power range and the bike's tallest gear is pretty impressive.
How much do you weigh ?
 
#30 ·
Here you go Cw09, since I know you drag race your bike you might be able to relate this info to logs you have, assuming you log your runs? This was also from yesterday's log, it was at 3,000 feet of altitude, I started at 20mph in 2nd gear (only 2,800rpm, I wanted a full rpm range pull, I wasn't going for a low et.) and let off at 107mph in 4th gear. The elapsed time was 6.22 seconds. I've never taken this bike to the strip or to a dyno so data like this is all I really have to go on. The actual times don't really concern me, comparing them to my other logs is just a way to quantify my goals of maximum engine efficiency. I know from logging tons of vehicles that 6.22 seconds for a 20-107mph pull is pretty damn good especially considering I was that low in the rpm's at the start.

Remember, the speed shown is in kph.

Start at 20mph, 2,831rpm, 2nd gear. Time is shown in upper right corner...

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End at 107mph, 10,145rpm, 4th gear. 4.867 to 11.087 is an et of 6.22 seconds.


162749
 
#38 ·
Hello

Couple days ago just picked up almost new 1400KM 2019 MT-09 SP, with full carbon akra. Been riding Street Triple 675 for almost 10 years for almost 120,000KM, I remember in 2016, I picked up mt-09 but not really keen on the riding position, suspension.

But now after tried couple a days with this 2019 mt-09 sp, I found a new love. :love:

My question about this bike, in low rpm below 4000, I feel not enough torque, ie: with street triple you can run 60Km/h on 6th gear nicely, could it be because of the full system akra?
I vaguely remember when I had 2016 MT with standard can, the torque curve about the same as street triple, it can happily run 60km/h on 6th gear.

Many Thanks, no doubt I will have so many questions for this beautiful bike.
Jim
View attachment 162687
I have the same model. Mine accelerates quite happily from 50kmh in top gear.
It is only slightly less strong from that speed in top gear than my Bandit 1250 was.
 
#42 ·
Just to chime in about 6th gear having power ..... I occasionally ride around at 3000-3500 rpm in 6th and it has power if you roll on . It’s not going to be snappy or “real” power but it’s far from gutless . For me if I’m out taking it easy 3500 seems to be the sweet spot for putting around town
 
#43 ·
Ok here's a way for you guys to test and quantify this yourselves...

A lot of you have Gopro's right? Put the Gopro on your helmet where it's looking down at the speedo. Now go for a ride and cruise along in 6th gear at around 35-37mph. Open the throttle about halfway and hold it until you hit 65-70mph. All you have to do is look at the video time stamp and you'll have your elapsed time. Or if it bogs and won't pull, you'll surely know it. I normally don't use my Gopro because I have front and rear cameras on my bike but the next time I go for a ride I'll do this. That way you all can not only SEE the speed increase, you can HEAR the engine "pulling cleanly" lol.

Come on guys, DO IT!!!
 
#48 ·
Bringing this back since nobody tried doing any 6th gear low rpm pulls on video...Here you go!

Video and a screen shot from the log. Both are of the exact same event, I dropped my speed down to 24mph/1,733rpm in 6th gear and accelerated to 100mph. I was around half throttle most of the way, went to wot near the end. The elapsed time from 24 to 100 was a little under 12 seconds.
For those that said there's no way it wouldn't chug or hesitate, turn up the volume on the video and listen to the engine. Seamless power building quickly from 1,733rpm to 7,000rpm, all in 6th gear.

A few notes... remember the log shows kph, I had the cursor at the start, it's showing 39kph which is 24mph. It's easy to see in the video my speed starts at 24mph and you can see it's in 6th gear on the cluster. I also forgot to turn off my GPS so since it shows location and speed limit, I figured I better block it's view just in case! lol. And lastly, if anyone wonders what the 3 blips in the speed/rpm trace are in the log, that's what bumps in the road look like in a log.

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#50 ·
You mean like this 15mph to 120mph "pull"?...

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Yeah I do those too. lol.

But seriously, if you notice in that above screenshot even the ECU knows you don't want to open the throttles fully at that low of an rpm. Black trace is what my hand is doing, blue trace is what the actual throttle plates are doing. Remember I'm from carburation days, I HAD to learn what an engine actually needs to operate efficiently. Going WOT at lower rpms on an engine with big cfm carbs is a good way to either go slower or damage an engine. Now all anyone has to do is flat foot their Hellcat to go fast, the ECU will take care of the fact they don't know how to drive.
 
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