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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to share my experience to hopefully share my insights and learn some as well.

I slid out because my engine case touched down and unweighted the tires. The corner I was on was a double apex where you enter on an uphill, and exit downhill with quite a bit of banking.

Ive come into the corner with more entry speed before, but this time I was a bit slower in, and I accelerated a bit more on corner exit as it’s a fun downhill bank corner and “Geeing” out the bottom under acceleration felt really fun. Unfortunately this corner exposed a few flaws with the FZ, and my setup.

First we know that it’s possible to drag the Stator side engine on corners, other members have posted about it, a team in the UK racing has mentioned it, as have I.

Second, Yamaha fits these bikes with pretty low and comfy foot pegs. I think they also serve a purpose to ”limit lean angle“ by having a peg safely drag before a case will.

Third. The “toilet bowl“ nature of this corner caused my bike to compress under acceleration which reduces clearance, making the left side touch down. I have GoPro footage where you can hear me roll on throttle but the forks compress... this isn’t what happens in flatter corners.

Fourth, setup.. I have a zx6r rear shock, sag was within proper range, but I can’t say it felt anything from planted, front end Racetech springs and valve. I increased preload last track day as it was the first time I kissed my engine guard on the ground. I have rearsets that are higher and back from stock. I have hurricane “fat swallow” bars on the bike which aid in a lower position on the bike.

Fifth. Body position. I’m no expert, but I try my best to hang off the bike weight the pegs, keep my arms loose for steering. But like I said, not an expert.

What do the experienced track day riders thing about this sequence? This is my first get off on a streetbike in 20 years of riding. I’m an expert level mountain biker/ downhill rider, who puts in 4-5hrs of riding in per week so I’m fit, and know how to ride a bike loose. This crash gave me nothing to save. I heard the case scrape, and before I could open up my line I was on the deck. I don’t know my speed but I was rolling on throttle in 3rd, for reference.

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Hey Cb...sorry to hear about your get off. Are you ok? Much damage to the bike? I really cant comment on how or why as I have not done a track day in many years! I will say this much...if one is destined to have a get off, the track is the safest place to have one..plenty of reasons for that with number one being on site medical! Hope your not banged up too bad!
 

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I'm not a track rider, but have read and watched a lot. From your picture sequence, it looks like you're bringing the bike with you all the way into max lean angles. You need to lean, but you also need to push the bike up away from you to keep it more vertical.
 

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I'm just chiming in to keep an eye on this thread, but it looks to me, from the pictures, you leaned with the bike and not off the bike. I must say here, I have ZERO experience with track days... but from enough lurking on the web, you need to lean off the bike more??? Hopefully, someone will validate or correct my comment.
 

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Photos look a bit deceiving, but it looks like you're a bit crossed up on the bike, although its not the exact cause it definitely aided in your crash. you simply over exceeded your bikes lean angle rebuild it, and get back out there.
 

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your upper body position could be better. i have a kissing the mirror technique. when i lean i try to imagine i have a mirrors there and i try to kiss it. there are two advantages to this. one, it makes my upper body lean more and two, it makes me look up, forward and far. but don't tell anyone else about the my technique, its my little ride fast secret. some advance track riders also have something called listening to your watch technique. once they enter the corner they will smoothly try to put their ear next to their watch of course you have two watches both the left and right side of your wrist. i believe this method will let you drag elbows that is if you are smooth. if you watch motogp rider their head is right next to the back of their wrist.


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your upper body position could be better. i have a kissing the mirror technique. when i lean i try to imagine i have a mirrors there and i try to kiss it. there are two advantages to this. one, it makes my upper body lean more and two, it makes me look up, forward and far. but don't tell anyone else about the my technique, its my little ride fast secret. some advance track riders also have something called listening to your watch technique. once they enter the corner they will smoothly try to put their ear next to their watch of course you have two watches both the left and right side of your wrist. i believe this method will let you drag elbows that is if you are smooth. if you watch motogp rider their head is right next to the back of their wrist.


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I thought they were just trying to scratch an itch on their nose and forgot they were wearing helmets...learn something new here everyday 🤷‍♂️
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I appreciate the feedback, that corner is a bit deceiving for photos, as it’s both downhill and banked. I see that my upper body isn’t as leaned over as much as a GP or supersport rider, but with our bikes bar position it’s not exactly the easiest. And in comparison to some other naked bike riders, I’m a lot more on the inside and lower to the bike:
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My friend on the yellow SV and I have similar pace on this track, as I followed him for many laps last track day.
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My bike is at the shop being assessed for insurance claim (yes my policy covers track days, yes I’m shocked too) If I get it back I will continue to enjoy street riding on it, but I’m already planning to build a 600 Supersport for track duty. I’d much rather continue to improve my riding on a bike that will be more suited to the job, than risk another one of these. I’m also seriously considering an Alpinestars TechAir system. Im fairly certain I’ve got cracked ribs on my right chest, and left back. According to my friend that got these shots, I rolled 5-6 times.
 
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I appreciate the feedback, that corner is a bit deceiving for photos, as it’s both downhill and banked. I see that my upper body isn’t as leaned over as much as a GP or supersport rider, but with our bikes bar position it’s not exactly the easiest. And in comparison to some other naked bike riders, I’m a lot more on the inside and lower to the bike:


My friend on the yellow SV and I have similar pace on this track, as I followed him for many laps last track day.


My bike is at the shop being assessed for insurance claim (yes my policy covers track days, yes I’m shocked too) If I get it back I will continue to enjoy street riding on it, but I’m already planning to build a 600 Supersport for track duty. I’d much rather continue to improve my riding on a bike that will be more suited to the job, than risk another one of these. I’m also seriously considering an Alpinestars TechAir system. Im fairly certain I’ve got cracked ribs on my right chest, and left back. According to my friend that got these shots, I rolled 5-6 times.


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buy a used R6. the year 2008 is the best year for the previous model r6 becasue of the airbox. but yea riding position is everything inside the track. it is really hard to get proper riding position on track when you are leaning over excessively for our mt09s. i found that with our mt09s it is really easy when leaned over to ride "crossed up", which is not good, because it is the most comfortable posistion when lean over. but when you are in an r6 the comfortable position are tucked in and hung over. the r6 was just designed to do that, the egos and aeros was sculpted to be that way. inside the track you really have to touch your chest with the tank and you can easily do that with a track bike.

the airtech system is pretty expensive. i would rather buy a good suit with good protectors and neck brace. but hey if you can afford it go for it, the more protection the better.

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but yea welcome to the world of trackdays.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
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buy a used R6. the year 2008 is the best year for the previous model r6 becasue of the airbox. but yea riding position is everything inside the track. it is really hard to get proper riding position on track when you are leaning over excessively for our mt09s. i found that with our mt09s it is really easy when leaned over to ride "crossed up", which is not good, because it is the most comfortable posistion when lean over. but when you are in an r6 the comfortable position are tucked in and hung over. the r6 was just designed to do that, the egos and aeros was sculpted to be that way. inside the track you really have to touch your chest with the tank and you can easily do that with a track bike.

the airtech system is pretty expensive. i would rather buy a good suit with good protectors and neck brace. but hey if you can afford it go for it, the more protection the better.

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but yea welcome to the world of trackdays.
My back protector is the same as the one pictured but without the side (kidney?) wings, at minimum I’d like to get the chest protector. I have a Leatt neck brace I used to use for Moto, I’ve never seen one used on a sportbike setup. Can’t see how mine would work with a jacket. Ya the air tech is $$$ but how many of us have $$$ helmets when a $ has the same safety standard... ya I hear ya about being forced to be crossed up I have my left ass cheek fully off and I’m trying to get my head out left but the bike Geo doesn’t really give you much to “hook” the opposite knee into, and the high bars are a limiting factor. IM NOT BLAMING MY TECHNIQUE SOLEY ON MY BIKE, I recognize I have more to learn and progress on, but I have 2 mountain bikes in my garage I use for different types of riding I do, I can appreciate that owning the right tool for the job makes life easier, and safer, and ultimately more fun.

I give full marks to my Astars GP pro gloves. While the seam did rip on the pinky, it’s because the stitching was sanded away on the ground, the Palm sliders, knuckle guard and wrist protection all have wear indicating the protection was well placed and I didnt have a single bruise srcatch or ache in my hands. From what I recall I started sliding belly down and tried to roll to my back, but ended up with 5-6 rolls for my effort. Hence the initial palm wear followed by back of hand wear.
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Not everyone wants to do sportsbike though. I've been there and ridden them, lots and lots.

Riding less appropriate bikes can be way more fun.
I disagree, pretty strongly in fact.

The FZ is an excellent on road bike, and is the Appropriate tool for the job, where as a 600 on road would be great fun for an hour but would be uncomfortable To live with.

Vice versa, The FZ is fun on the track until it really F*@#ing isn’t. And a 600 wouldn’t have put me in the gravel in the same situation.

I really enjoy track riding so far, why continue to do it on a bike that I’ve twice found the lean angle limits on with moderate skill. It’s not like I’m a total newb, that was perched on the bike like a lego man and just let the bike do all the leaning.

I like cornering I can’t say I feel confident wanting to explore the edge on a bike that’s going to continue presenting a shitty result if I continue exploring that edge on the left hand side. That’s a pretty expensive risk reward ratio in my mind.
 

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I think weeksy just meant some ppl don’t like sport bikes and would rather have fun on their FZ or equivalent Bike . I don’t believe he was saying your wrong in wanting to switch to a more appropriate bike
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think weeksy just meant some ppl don’t like sport bikes and would rather have fun on their FZ or equivalent Bike . I don’t believe he was saying your wrong in wanting to switch to a more appropriate bike
Fair, I think he’s got it backwards, I think the FZ is pretty close to the UJM at being pretty good at all things, so is a VERY appropriate bike for the street, it’s Fairly sporty, is fairly comfortable, it’s got a helluva lot of fun useable torque and power. It’s a great Up to 8/10ths pace.

I’ve never owned a Supersport because I thought they were pretty overkill for the street. (Not the appropriate tool) These bikes seating position engine power output suspension settings etc is best suited to that 8 to 10/10ths pace.
 

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The thing is, you can have fun and go fast on track on any bike. I've done 150 trackdays and raced for a couple of years, my last 4 years I've ridden KTM 690 dukes on track, they've been awesome.

The xsr900 was great, sure it wasn't like a sportsbike but I never expected it or wanted it to be one. It was exactly what it was and you factor that into the riding, either by changing riding style or going less than 100%.
I also have a zx6r in the garage that my wife uses in track but I have no desire at all to ride.

I've only ridden an mt09sp on track once, donington park last year, it wasn't great, the back end didn't feel right at all. My xsr900 feels better in honesty.
If you want to go balls out, sure, get a sportsbike, but you don't need one to have fun
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The thing is, you can have fun and go fast on track on any bike. I've done 150 trackdays and raced for a couple of years, my last 4 years I've ridden KTM 690 dukes on track, they've been awesome.

The xsr900 was great, sure it wasn't like a sportsbike but I never expected it or wanted it to be one. It was exactly what it was and you factor that into the riding, either by changing riding style or going less than 100%.
I also have a zx6r in the garage that my wife uses in track but I have no desire at all to ride.

I've only ridden an mt09sp on track once, donington park last year, it wasn't great, the back end didn't feel right at all. My xsr900 feels better in honesty.
If you want to go balls out, sure, get a sportsbike, but you don't need one to have fun
Thanks for this reply Weeksy, that’s a good perspective, you have a lot more sportbike and track experience than I do. You have a much better understanding of where the limits of a bike are, and what good track riding body position is, and therefore how to ride an inappropriate bike on the track.

I’ve been riding for 20 years but, at safe street speeds on bikes like VFR, ZRX, and FZ09... so while quick and comfortable on the streets (and lucky to live in the mountains so we have lots of fun twisty roads) I don’t have the background and experience to use the wrong tool at the sharp end of the riding scale like you do.
 

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Thanks for this reply Weeksy, that’s a good perspective, you have a lot more sportbike and track experience than I do. You have a much better understanding of where the limits of a bike are, and what good track riding body position is, and therefore how to ride an inappropriate bike on the track.

I’ve been riding for 20 years but, at safe street speeds on bikes like VFR, ZRX, and FZ09... so while quick and comfortable on the streets (and lucky to live in the mountains so we have lots of fun twisty roads) I don’t have the background and experience to use the wrong tool at the sharp end of the riding scale like you do.
You wouldn't say that if you'd seen me ride.
But yeah I'm experienced
 

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Thanks for this reply Weeksy, that’s a good perspective, you have a lot more sportbike and track experience than I do. You have a much better understanding of where the limits of a bike are, and what good track riding body position is, and therefore how to ride an inappropriate bike on the track.

I’ve been riding for 20 years but, at safe street speeds on bikes like VFR, ZRX, and FZ09... so while quick and comfortable on the streets (and lucky to live in the mountains so we have lots of fun twisty roads) I don’t have the background and experience to use the wrong tool at the sharp end of the riding scale like you do.
It'll just take time, time and practice mate. But also depends what you want as an end goal, do you want to go faster, not everyone does. It's not mandatory to go faster faster faster, plenty of the lads I track with just do it for the pit banter and the curry and beers. That's the great bit, it can be whatever you want it to be. There's no rules.

One thing you don't seem to have in the US from various forums is the paddock banter, possibly because of the size of the country.

UK it's a close knit community and we for example had 10 great friends out drinking beers and a meal after the last day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Cheers man, we definitely don’t have a big track bike community in western Canada. While I know at 42yrs old I’m not going to set any records, I do still want to learn how to get safely up to the edge a closer. I had a great time out earlier in the year and had some good conversations with guys in the pits, I enjoy the focus you get into on the track too. Similar to the hyper focus you get on a my mountain bike when your on a tough track.
 
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