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"Brakes are adequate...but lacking in feel."

"Let's be polite and call the off-idle engine response "snappy.""

"The FZ-09 will bounce and wallow a little when pushed hard on a twisty road."

"...undoubtedly worth putting up with the small indiscretions in the chassis and fueling."

This guy is tap dancing just like most of the rest of the motorcycle press. Motojournalists are being very, very polite about these things but read between the lines. The Nine will need at least a new shock and a Race-Tech-style fork rework and new springs to sort some of the suspension issues. The bolt-up frame may be creating insoluble problems. It sounds too good to be true and probably is.

The real issue for me would be that two-piece frame. All the fork work in the world won't cure it if it's the source of the handling problems, not even a set of Ohlins. The inherent twist, flex, and lack of feedback that come with a two-piece frame may be OK for hooliganism and urban riding but the darn thing can not really be called a replacement for the FZ8 if its track and backroad scratching aren't correctable.

Here again I advise anyone to at least sit back and wait a bit longer until the real info comes out. If Yammie puts that engine in a proper chassis and charges another grand, I'm in. If not, KTM, here I come...and I'll hang on to my FZ8 in the meanwhile.

Just my opinion, of course.
 

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"Brakes are adequate...but lacking in feel."

"Let's be polite and call the off-idle engine response "snappy.""

"The FZ-09 will bounce and wallow a little when pushed hard on a twisty road."

"...undoubtedly worth putting up with the small indiscretions in the chassis and fueling."

This guy is tap dancing just like most of the rest of the motorcycle press. Motojournalists are being very, very polite about these things but read between the lines. The Nine will need at least a new shock and a Race-Tech-style fork rework and new springs to sort some of the suspension issues. The bolt-up frame may be creating insoluble problems. It sounds too good to be true and probably is.

The real issue for me would be that two-piece frame. All the fork work in the world won't cure it if it's the source of the handling problems, not even a set of Ohlins. The inherent twist, flex, and lack of feedback that come with a two-piece frame may be OK for hooliganism and urban riding but the darn thing can not really be called a replacement for the FZ8 if its track and backroad scratching aren't correctable.

Here again I advise anyone to at least sit back and wait a bit longer until the real info comes out. If Yammie puts that engine in a proper chassis and charges another grand, I'm in. If not, KTM, here I come...and I'll hang on to my FZ8 in the meanwhile.

Just my opinion, of course.

I didn't read anything about the frame or the frame flex.

Being a FZ8 owner, it's understandable that you may "have a chip on your shoulder" when it comes to the FZ09. Afterall, you paid more for a heavier bike with less HP & torque. Let the FZ09 owners be the judge of the frame or any other shortcomings.

Your opinion is always welcome, but stop "pissing in everyone's Cheerios".
 
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I didn't read anything about the frame or the frame flex.

Being a FZ8 owner, it's understandable that you may "have a chip on your shoulder" when it comes to the FZ09. Afterall, you paid more for a heavier bike with less HP & torque. Let the FZ09 owners be the judge of the frame or any other shortcomings.

Your opinion is always welcome, but stop "pissing in everyone's Cheerios".
The bolt together construction is -- putting it politely -- not optimal for hard backroad scratching or track days. A feature article on the bike in CW discussed the "tuned flex" design of the frame in some detail. Whilst Mr. Cameron's article on the bike suggests that the frame is "trickle-down" technology from MotoGP, in fact "tuned-flex" has a been a term used at least since Honda's SuperHawk 1000 was released in the 1990s. That bike had a solid, cast steering head and it was still very flexy and not at all track-worthy at anything approaching competitive speeds. No MotoGP bike, or any racebike on the planet for that matter, uses a bolt-up frame. I would remind anyone who is reading that it is the journalists making these statements regarding handling and throttle response, and the known frame construction and issues normally related to that type of design would suggest that the handling problems reported are likely due to the frame assembly rather than the suspension. I did not invent these comments but I can certainly confirm that a bolt-up steering head is going to be a problem when pushed.
 

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The bolt together construction is -- putting it politely -- not optimal for hard backroad scratching or track days. A feature article on the bike in CW discussed the "tuned flex" design of the frame in some detail. Whilst Mr. Cameron's article on the bike suggests that the frame is "trickle-down" technology from MotoGP, in fact "tuned-flex" has a been a term used at least since Honda's SuperHawk 1000 was released in the 1990s. That bike had a solid, cast steering head and it was still very flexy and not at all track-worthy at anything approaching competitive speeds. No MotoGP bike, or any racebike on the planet for that matter, uses a bolt-up frame. I would remind anyone who is reading that it is the journalists making these statements regarding handling and throttle response, and the known frame construction and issues normally related to that type of design would suggest that the handling problems reported are likely due to the frame assembly rather than the suspension. I did not invent these comments but I can certainly confirm that a bolt-up steering head is going to be a problem when pushed.
If you want a track bike, buy a R6.................Yamaha DID NOT design this bike for the track, even IF the split frame is an issue.



If I remember right, the original FZ6 had a simular cast frame. I don't think any road tester complained about it's frame.
You are correct and no one including owners had an issue with them.
 
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If you want a track bike, buy a R6.................Yamaha DID NOT design this bike for the track, even IF the split frame is an issue.





You are correct and no one including owners had an issue with them.
Since you mention it, I did buy a track bike a couple of months ago, after I learned of the split frame configuration on the FZ9. 2012 GSX-R 750. I did in fact ride an FZ-6 at one of the major US tracks at a press intro, and the handling was awful under those circumstances. This is a very fast track, one that I personally have put in thousands of miles on over the last 15 years or so, which is the last place one would want to ride an FZ-6.

All that said you have just reiterated the point I have been pushing since I got on the forum; the FZ9 is NOT a track bike, it is NOT a hard-core backroad scratcher. I could live without the track bike aspect but not without the confidence of having a first-rate frame like the Gixxer and FZ8 come with. The early journo reviews, whilst polite, have been unanimous on two adverse features: the vague front end and sloppy suspension, and "snappy" (read: abrupt) throttle response. Those are deal-breaking issues for me and that is what I've always focused on.

And BTW I have never pissed in anyone's Cheerios; Wheaties, maybe, but never Cheerios.:angel2:
 

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The bolt together construction is -- putting it politely -- not optimal for hard backroad scratching or track days. A feature article on the bike in CW discussed the "tuned flex" design of the frame in some detail. Whilst Mr. Cameron's article on the bike suggests that the frame is "trickle-down" technology from MotoGP, in fact "tuned-flex" has a been a term used at least since Honda's SuperHawk 1000 was released in the 1990s. That bike had a solid, cast steering head and it was still very flexy and not at all track-worthy at anything approaching competitive speeds. No MotoGP bike, or any racebike on the planet for that matter, uses a bolt-up frame. I would remind anyone who is reading that it is the journalists making these statements regarding handling and throttle response, and the known frame construction and issues normally related to that type of design would suggest that the handling problems reported are likely due to the frame assembly rather than the suspension. I did not invent these comments but I can certainly confirm that a bolt-up steering head is going to be a problem when pushed.
Dude, this was never intended to be a track bike; it is a $8,000 bike with a bunch of technology at a bargain. Get something else and go away.
 

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Here's the most important part to me......."I can confidently say that Yamaha's new FZ-09 is the most agile, rowdy, and just plain entertaining motorcycle I've ridden from Japan all year. Heck, maybe ever. It's pure, analog fun." Also, "Two things; one is the engine, which is an absolute gem and undoubtedly worth putting up with the small indiscretions in the chassis and fueling. The other is the MSRP, an amazingly rational $7,990." I've ridden a lot of motorcycles and there have been very few that have that "it" factor that makes you want to just keep riding and riding........I love my 2 bikes but I definitely would rather ride my SV1000 over the Z1000 because for me It has that personality I just love. If you just look at specs and reviews most people would pick the Z1000. So what it comes down to is you have to ride the bike and make a decision from that, not what everyone else says. I am very interested in this bike but I will not buy one unless I ride it and it really does something for me. I think the issues are minor and easily fixed with a set of springs and a power commander. Even the best bikes always seem to need tweaking to the suspension for personal preference. For the price you can do a lot of tweaking before you get up to the price of an R6......
 
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oh, the cut rate fisher price ecu doesn't bother you any more?

we get that you're not going to buy the 09, you mentioned that several times. you're satisfied with your fz8 and gsx-r. that's wonderful.

so why are you here?
Same reason as everyone else, to get info on the bike and express my views.
 
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Dude, this was never intended to be a track bike; it is a $8,000 bike with a bunch of technology at a bargain. Get something else and go away.
I already got something else but I have no intention of going away. I've gotten a lot of good info from this site along with just a little abuse, which is a fair trade. I'll be checking in quite frequently and will be very interested to see the kinds of comments that are being made by FZ9 owners in a few months.

I will also comment that when I joined I don't recall being advised that only good things can be said here about the FZ9, and no one is to question it or inquire as to possible flaws. Funny thing is that quite a few members have excused the known flaws by stating that it's a budget bike or a first-year machine. So one the one hand, flaws are expected and one should live with them, and on the other, no one is to question the bike's quality or he/she will be run out of town on a shutter. I do call that irony. However, I shall do everyone a favor and merely lurk for a while.
 

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Here's the thing guys, opinions, all of them are certainly welcome here, just not personal attacks, of which there haven't been any, so let's keep it that way. The discussion of the bike and related issues are the way we all gain knowledge of what we are discussing.
 

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I do call that irony. However, I shall do everyone a favor and merely lurk for a while.
No, please continue to post......................

We need someone to tell us that the FZ09 sucks as a touring bike because of the fuel capacity, that is sucks as a adventure bike because of the 17" front tire, that it sucks as a dual-sport because it doesn't have 11 inches of travel, and on and on and on.........................

Perhaps you need some conselling. I seems to me you have unresolved issues with Yamaha because you paid more for a bike that weights more and makes less power. Honestly, I would be SUPER-PISSED if I just bought a FZ8.

Maybe a good cry would help................or at least a good laxative to dislodge that stick that's up your ass. :)
 

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Bolt up frame or not, I still want the bike. I seriously doubt that I would notice any difference for the kind of riding I do. (and unless your name's Rossi or Hayden, I doubt you will either. They're bolts, not rubber bands.) I'm sure it'll flex a lot less than my ZRX 1100 did, and that was a blast of a hooligan bike. (it's a hell of a lot lighter than the ZRX as well).
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I will also comment that when I joined I don't recall being advised that only good things can be said here about the FZ9, and no one is to question it or inquire as to possible flaws. Funny thing is that quite a few members have excused the known flaws by stating that it's a budget bike or a first-year machine. So one the one hand, flaws are expected and one should live with them, and on the other, no one is to question the bike's quality or he/she will be run out of town on a shutter.
we all already know the 09 isn't a perfect bike. we're aware of its imperfections. most of us who already know we're going to be buying this bike accept them, and are willing to spend the time/money/effort into finding workable solutions.

criticisms aren't the issue. it's how you're going about it.

'spongy suspension -> need heavier springs, maybe fork oil and revalve. snatchy throttle -> use 'b' mode around town as a stopgap, best solution is a remap or retune of the ycc-t maps. spongy brakes -> braided lines, new pads, proper bedding in'

vs.

'bolt-together frame is a fatal flaw! ecu is too slow! why is this bike replacing the fz8?? these are deal breakers for me, i am not going to buy this bike!' repeated multiple times.

do you see the difference?

constructive criticism vs. fud.

it's almost like you're personally offended that yamaha didn't make this bike specifically to your liking. sure, you can express your dissatisfaction publicly if you want, but then you shouldn't be surprised when people find it annoying.
 
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sure, you can express your dissatisfaction publicly if you want, but then you shouldn't be surprised when people find it annoying.
I am not surprised that a few forum members find it annoying, as it is not really what some are wanting to read. I am certain I would be getting plenty of likes and thumbs-up's if I was posting purely positive comments about how great the bike was going to be.

The truth is that very few people out there are really aware of the issues surrounding the bolt-up frame because so few bikes actually use them. I am presenting information about this type of frame and it does not set well; however, it is accurate. What I do find interesting is not a single post has been made that showed anyone did any research on this issue. I mentioned harmonics and said there were demonstrable engineering data that would support my statements but no one seems to have recalled that.

Let's just see what happens when it comes out and what kind of comments owners are making six months from now.
 

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The truth is that very few people out there are really aware of the issues surrounding the bolt-up frame because so few bikes actually use them. I am presenting information about this type of frame and it does not set well; however, it is accurate. What I do find interesting is not a single post has been made that showed anyone did any research on this issue. I mentioned harmonics and said there were demonstrable engineering data that would support my statements but no one seems to have recalled that.
I would like to read these engineering studies and reports on the issues surrounding bolt-up frames. Please provide citations so I can find them.
 

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What I do find interesting is not a single post has been made that showed anyone did any research on this issue. I mentioned harmonics and said there were demonstrable engineering data that would support my statements but no one seems to have recalled that.
i did remember you mentioning harmonics, and then i asked you to explain. you posted something brief about guitars but didn't say any more. if you have links to some engineering articles or white papers, we'd be interested in reading them.

you're the one who posited that the bolt together frame would cause handling issues, so the onus is on you to provide the evidence to substantiate your claim.

to the rest of us, it's just a different way of putting the frame together.
 
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