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Discussion Starter #21
I think Yamaha scamming you out of 600 miles warranty is appalling.
You should have revenge.
On your next machine, buy a Speedo-healer and set it to under-read by 10% to get your 600 miles back.

If you are getting your machine serviced at an authorized dealer, they are also making extra money out of you.

At least if a Harley speedo over-reads some of the money is going into the pockets of working US citizens.
The reality is that it's my 3rd Yamaha in 3 years and I've never had 1 in the dealer for any reason. I do all my own servicing and mods. Murphy's Law being what it is, I'll probably have my first issue that would have been covered under warranty now. I had a Ducati Scrambler previous to the 3 Yamahas and had over $3000 in warranty claims and a $600 service because of desmo valves in less than 1 year.
 

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Because my Hayabusa was off 10-15 percent. My mt09 at 45mph was 44 on gps. At 80mph is was 78mph that’s pretty damn accurate for a motorcycle.
My 2017 FZ-09 has the most accurate speedo of any bike I have owned... it's within +/-1mph of GPS.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 

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Some of the reason for the real speed vs speedo speed, is some countries have laws saying your vehicle must not be faster then what is indicated by your speedo.
hence why they put in some margin to avoid lawsuits, when people get tickets even when putting the speedometer at the right speed.
 

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I would say wheel sensors are slightly more accurate because they read the speed of two wheels rather than one and changing sprockets doesn't effect them. If you change sprockets on a bike with countershaft speedo your speedometer will be off where the wheel sensors will continue to give you the same speed.
I'm not certain, but given the rolling circumference disparity between front and rear wheels, I'd say speed data for the speedo is read off just one.
As for changing gearing, that is irrelevant in a discussion about stock bikes. Not many people change gearing.
 

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Oh hell, on the sportbike forum I used to follow, the first thing most of them did is change to a -1/+2 sprocket setup for better acceleration, not that most of them needed it!
 

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I'm not certain, but given the rolling circumference disparity between front and rear wheels, I'd say speed data for the speedo is read off just one.
As for changing gearing, that is irrelevant in a discussion about stock bikes. Not many people change gearing.
Changing gearing on bikes is extremely common. I've read numerous threads on this forum alone about guys making gearing taller for highway or shorter for quicker acceleration or easier wheelies. Like OldSchlPunk has said -1/+2 is one of the most common things to do especially with a 600 sportbike. The things come with top speeds you'll never reach so why wouldn't you turn useless top speed into better acceleration. Some people will drop a tooth or two to push the wheel back without having to lengthen the chain. I mean there's a lot of reasons to change gearing and quite a few have done so.
 

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Because my Hayabusa was off 10-15 percent. My mt09 at 45mph was 44 on gps. At 80mph is was 78mph that’s pretty damn accurate for a motorcycle.
Sorry, that proves nothing. Different bikes. My 1250 Bandit was 10% fast throughout the speed range, my 09 is 9% fast.
USA bikes appear to have more accurate speedos than Pacific market and probably Euro bikes.
 

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Changing gearing on bikes is extremely common. I've read numerous threads on this forum alone about guys making gearing taller for highway or shorter for quicker acceleration or easier wheelies. Like OldSchlPunk has said -1/+2 is one of the most common things to do especially with a 600 sportbike. The things come with top speeds you'll never reach so why wouldn't you turn useless top speed into better acceleration. Some people will drop a tooth or two to push the wheel back without having to lengthen the chain. I mean there's a lot of reasons to change gearing and quite a few have done so.
Don't confuse forums with the greater market. We are a minority.
 

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Don't confuse forums with the greater market. We are a minority.
Ummm that statement alone goes against this very thread of discussion. The greater market wouldn't be having a discussion about the 5% error in the speedometer but here we are soooo... Speaking of the greater market, did you know there is a whole world of aftermarket parts made for motorcycles that include various sizes of sprockets which are quite commonly changed by motorcycle enthusiasts for many reasons. Racers alone (Amateurs, intermediate, and pro) usually have various sprockets to change out their gearing depending on the track. Maybe you haven't ventured into changing your gearing but I know plenty of others that have. If that wasn't the case I don't think there would be so many aftermarket options available.
 

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Sorry, that proves nothing. Different bikes. My 1250 Bandit was 10% fast throughout the speed range, my 09 is 9% fast.
USA bikes appear to have more accurate speedos than Pacific market and probably Euro bikes.
My point was wheel speed sensors are more accurate than counter shaft sensor’s.
 

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Ummm that statement alone goes against this very thread of discussion. The greater market wouldn't be having a discussion about the 5% error in the speedometer but here we are soooo... Speaking of the greater market, did you know there is a whole world of aftermarket parts made for motorcycles that include various sizes of sprockets which are quite commonly changed by motorcycle enthusiasts for many reasons. Racers alone (Amateurs, intermediate, and pro) usually have various sprockets to change out their gearing depending on the track. Maybe you haven't ventured into changing your gearing but I know plenty of others that have. If that wasn't the case I don't think there would be so many aftermarket options available.
Trying not to be patronising here. But I've been riding, working and fiddling with bikes for 52 years. there's not much I haven't done.
The majority of all bike owners don't do a lot of changes other than a noisier can and bling.
 
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My point was wheel speed sensors are more accurate than counter shaft sensor’s.
They both have their advantages, for example:
A countershaft sensor is less likely to be damaged
A wheel speed sensor will remain accurate even if the gearing is changed because it is counting tire revolutions directly.

Honestly I'd love to see a manufacturer provide a simple speedometer calibration routine - it would be simple to implement in the ECU and for $10 they could even include a GPS chip in the cluster so all you have to do after getting new tires or changing a different sprocket is select 'calibrate' and then ride around where you've got a good glimpse of the sky.
 

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The countershaft sensor and wheel sensor work in a similar way. They are mechanically linked to each other and chains don't slip, both sensors read speed of rotation. The wheel sensor reads at a higher hertz so it will have quicker response to changes in speed, but will not be different in a steady state. The difference would be minimal.
Any differences in accuracy occur in the readout system.
If this is too hard to understand, that's a shame. What one brand of bike does compared to another is fake logic.
 

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The countershaft sensor and wheel sensor work in a similar way. They are mechanically linked to each other and chains don't slip, both sensors read speed of rotation. The wheel sensor reads at a higher hertz so it will have quicker response to changes in speed, but will not be different in a steady state. The difference would be minimal.
Any differences in accuracy occur in the readout system.
If this is too hard to understand, that's a shame. What one brand of bike does compared to another is fake logic.
You are correct that they are mechanically linked and accuracy should be the same, however the countershaft sensor reads 'before' the chain sprocket gearing, while the wheel sensor reads 'after'. Because of this a wheel sensor will still be accurate even if sprocket tooth count is changed. The distance the bike travels per wheel revolution is still the same, however the distance traveled per counter-shaft revolution is not. The only way to make a wheel sensor inaccurate is to change the diameter of the wheel, which is still done but not as frequently as sprocket changes.
 
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You are correct that they are mechanically linked and accuracy should be the same, however the countershaft sensor reads 'before' the chain sprocket gearing, while the wheel sensor reads 'after'. Because of this a wheel sensor will still be accurate even if sprocket tooth count is changed. The distance the bike travels per wheel revolution is still the same, however the distance traveled per counter-shaft revolution is not. The only way to make a wheel sensor inaccurate is to change the diameter of the wheel, which is still done but not as frequently as sprocket changes.
Exactly. I’ve owned 13 bikes. Wheel speed sensors were always way more accurate. I use GPS on my bikes to see how off it is. My Hayabusa had a speedo healer because it was so bad.
 

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OK. My last comment. The original statement was the wheel sensors were more accurate than countershaft sensors.
No mention of gearing changes, tyre changes, etc.
The original statement was wrong, no matter how many red herrings you want to throw in there.
BTW. If you change tyre size, it changes everything.
 

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If my calculations are right, every 60 miles would actually be 57 miles and over 12,000 miles, Yamaha has japped me out of 600 miles of warranty.
If it hasn't had a problem for the first 12,000 miles I highly doubt it's going to have a problem in the next 600 miles. Chances of getting hit by lightning might be better - lol.
 
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