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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, here is the link to my intro, gives ya a little heads up.

Second, got 2 situations with a customer's 09, never ran into this in 38+ years workin on skoots. Here's the history...

He called when his skoot was stock with his concerns bout the abrupt throttle. In reading bout the 09 in the mags I suggested he have the ecu flashed, seemed to help from the info in the articles. He decided to first install a full Akro exhaust. He was pretty happy with the overall performance improvement, but was still unhappy with the abrupt throttle response.

He sent the ECU out to have it flashed. The abruptness was lessened, not completely, but sufficiently enuff to make him happy. BUT...his part throttle acceleration was hurt, he commented how it had diminished the torque and responsiveness. I told him to confer with the person that did the flash, and I suggested that if the lag in acceleration was due to an incorrect a/f ratio then we would have to install a PCV and do a custom map. He conferred with the flash guy who stated he could restore the original factory map, or as I had suggested do the PCV install.

So we arranged to do the PCV/custom map process. I had my technician ride the skoot b4 we did anything, boy was it very dirty running in that area where he felt the loss after the flash. Did the PCV install/custom map and man o man what an improvement. We and he was happy, very clean runnin and all the advantages of a custom map.

He rode the skoot around for a few days and then took a vacation up to Georgia. This is where the first anomaly occurred . The one day he rode up in Georgia, as soon as he would drop the skoot in gear, the rpm would rise to 1600-1700 rpm. Put the tranny back in neutral, back to normal idle. This happened the whole time up there, and happened all of a sudden. When he got back down here and rode the skoot, the problem persisted, but did not occur all the time as it had in Georgia.

He brought the skoot in for us to diagnose. The high idle did not occur when he first brought it in, but this is where I noticed something strange that no-one had noticed b4. Drop the skoot in gear, SLOWLY let the clutch out WITHOUT touching the throttle and as soon as the clutch switch engages the rpm rise momentarily. With the PCV hooked up to my laptop I see the throttle position go from 0% to 1% exactly when the rpm's rise. COMPLETELY disconnecting the PCV and this anomaly remains. This rpm rise is not felt in normal ridin, it is not noticeable as we are always applying some throttle to get goin.

Since the high idle problem was not happening, he took the skoot out for a ride and came back when the high idle problem came back. Hookin up the PCV to my laptop shows the throttle position going from 0% when in neutral to 1-2% when put into ANY GEAR!

So I humbly ask you 09 owners, has anyone noticed this rpm rise when letting the clutch out. Would any of you volunteer to duplicate this, drop the skoot into first gear and slowly let the clutch out, does the rpm rise on it's own with no throttle application.

My intent is to find out if this is normal or somehow related to the high idle speed he experienced, which since it's been in my shop (except for the first day), has not reoccurred.

Since this is a ride by wire skoot the ecu is opening the throttle plates and I want to know if this rise in rpm when releasing the clutch is characteristic of the 09, or maybe somehow related to the high idle occurrence, which would again point to the ECU.

MANY THANX

RACNRAY
 

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The flash wasn't re set to factory specs.
 

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Ray......I just went out and tried mine. Engine temp. mostly at ambient temperature.....I just got done washing it and started it up to put it back in the garage. The tach on the 09 is not very easy to get a precise reading, but when the engine was started, it settled on approx. 1200 RPM. I let it warm up for 30 seconds or so and very slowly started letting the clutch out (bike was already in first gear as that is how I always park my bikes). Absolutely ZERO rise in RPM and as I let the clutch out a bit further, it actually started to drop just a bit as it was trying to move the bike forward.

Background: Arrow full exhaust system with no D.B. killer installed. Stoltec Flash with Arrow mapping for no D.B. killer. O2 sensor hooked up. No P.C. on the bike. Stock air filter and approx. 47xx miles. Hope this helps ya.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ray......I just went out and tried mine. Engine temp. mostly at ambient temperature.....I just got done washing it and started it up to put it back in the garage. The tach on the 09 is not very easy to get a precise reading, but when the engine was started, it settled on approx. 1200 RPM. I let it warm up for 30 seconds or so and very slowly started letting the clutch out (bike was already in first gear as that is how I always park my bikes). Absolutely ZERO rise in RPM and as I let the clutch out a bit further, it actually started to drop just a bit as it was trying to move the bike forward.

Background: Arrow full exhaust system with no D.B. killer installed. Stoltec Flash with Arrow mapping for no D.B. killer. O2 sensor hooked up. No P.C. on the bike. Stock air filter and approx. 47xx miles. Hope this helps ya.
YES IT DOES....been workin on Jap skoots for over 38 years and I just could not figure that this was right. This skoot's rpm increases and actually helps the bike leave from a standstill with no throttle!! It was not Stoltec who flashed this ecu. I have been and am now even more so figuring sumthin's wrong with the ecu or the flash has been corrupted some how. I am bettin our 2 problems come from the same fault.

Thanx for takin the time, if others can try the same test it would be very much appreciated.

THANX
RACNRAY
 

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with the stock ecu, it's not normal. it's possible to set up the ride by wire throttle tables to make the bike act the way you describe (apply throttle even when you're not touching the grip).

speak to the guy who did the flash. some guys like to put non-zero output throttle values in the 0% throttle input column to reduce engine braking. if this is set at a low enough rpm, the bike will accelerate by itself when slowly releasing the clutch. the throttle maps can be customized per gear. neutral is considered a separate gear, but when the bike is in gear and the clutch is pulled in, this is also considered neutral.

the power commander software tps value shows the throttle butterfly position (output throttle), not the throttle grip position (input throttle).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
with the stock ecu, it's not normal. it's possible to set up the ride by wire throttle tables to make the bike act the way you describe (apply throttle even when you're not touching the grip).

speak to the guy who did the flash. some guys like to put non-zero output throttle values in the 0% throttle input column to reduce engine braking. if this is set at a low enough rpm, the bike will accelerate by itself when slowly releasing the clutch. the throttle maps can be customized per gear. neutral is considered a separate gear, but when the bike is in gear and the clutch is pulled in, this is also considered neutral.

the power commander software tps value shows the throttle butterfly position (output throttle), not the throttle grip position (input throttle).
The owner of the skoot spoke to the guy who flashed the ecu. I believe the conversation went along the lines that he would flash the ecu back to stock, he had no answer other than suggesting to disconnect the PCV. I used my pc software to document that the throttle plates were being opened at the time engine rpm increased, which is of course controlled by the ecu, not the throttle grip.

RACNRAY
 

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Just tested mine. Same result as triplethreat, zero rise in RPM with a slight dip as the clutch engages and the bike starts to move.

Completely stock except for the Stoltec flash for stock exhaust. Has about 3k miles on it.
 

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The owner of the skoot spoke to the guy who flashed the ecu. I believe the conversation went along the lines that he would flash the ecu back to stock, he had no answer other than suggesting to disconnect the PCV. I used my pc software to document that the throttle plates were being opened at the time engine rpm increased, which is of course controlled by the ecu, not the throttle grip.
i'd say the ecu wasn't properly flashed back to stock. get the contact info of the guy who did the flashing and talk to him directly. secondhand info tends to lose accuracy.
 

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One possibility that could be easy to check is to see if the clutch cable is routed in such a manner as to ever come into contact with the throttle cable or the throttle body linkages. As Tension is applied or releases on the clutch cable the clutch cable housing will move in such a way as to press on those items and could be the cause. I actually had this happen with a brake line once.
 

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is not the problem everyone has with the throttle response due to the throttle body closing completely when u let off of it. If so would not a reflash just keep the throttle from closing completely to help this problem. I was thinking the main jerky of the throttle was fixed by not letting the throttle body close completely. If so the clutch cable not adjusted properly would allow for some opening in the throttle when a person thinks it is fully engaged.
 

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Thats part of the flash in mode A. It keep the throttle open @ 1%. They keep thr the throttle open on decel to reduce engine braking but do it down to idle. I had mine custom tune to leave it normal under 3K rpm.

The flash help to tune the throttle for the amount of fuel available. But a good tune is the way to go.
 

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Factory tune cuts the injectors when the throttle is closed under a certain rpm...

is not the problem everyone has with the throttle response due to the throttle body closing completely when u let off of it. If so would not a reflash just keep the throttle from closing completely to help this problem. I was thinking the main jerky of the throttle was fixed by not letting the throttle body close completely. If so the clutch cable not adjusted properly would allow for some opening in the throttle when a person thinks it is fully engaged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just tested mine. Same result as triplethreat, zero rise in RPM with a slight dip as the clutch engages and the bike starts to move.

Completely stock except for the Stoltec flash for stock exhaust. Has about 3k miles on it.
THANX...just what I needed to know. Now this is narrowing this down.

RACNRAY
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
i'd say the ecu wasn't properly flashed back to stock. get the contact info of the guy who did the flashing and talk to him directly. secondhand info tends to lose accuracy.
ECU was not sent back to be re-flashed back to stock, it still has the performance flash.

Isn't there a setting in the PCV to calibrate the value of the TPS in the Dynojet software
Yes there is, but it has nothing to do with the ECU opening the throttle plates .

RACNRAY
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sent the ecu back to the company that performed the original flash. The problem was definitely within the ecu as they installed it on a 9 that was in their shop and was able to witness our problem on that skoot. Got the ecu back today and so far all problems are gone now, skoot back to normal. I gotta call the company to get the specifics of what was wrong/what did they do to the ecu.

Hopefully this series of problems will not return.

RACNRAY
 

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mine wont do that at a standstill. but when creeping in traffic I can let the clutch out and the motor will apply some throttle to keep itself from bogging. It seems quite convenient actually haha. mine is flashed as well.
 
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