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Discussion Starter #21
Nice detailed write up Marthy,

Am I wrong in thinking that the original CCT design was intended to utilize the oil passage in order to increase tension on the chain as the engine speed increases? A dynamic tensioner so to speak?

With the APE tensioner it seems that the timing chain receives a consistent amount of tension regardless of the engine speed or engine temp.

Perhaps Yamaha wanted to avoid a consistent amount of tension on the timing chain in order to avoid pre-mature wear due to the way the timing chain metal expands and contracts during its heat cycles?

The Ape design seems simple and straight forward, why would Yamaha choose to go a more complex route utilizing the varying oil pressures created while the engine is running?
Because it would be too easy. The whole thing about hydraulic tensioner is that they are suppose to adjust themselves. As soon as the chain pick up some slack the oil psi push the tensioner out. So if there's anything... the oem tensioner constantly put pressure on the chain for no reason. The manual cct is pretty much a long bolt and a jam nut. About as basic as a hammer and chisel! LOL But it work!!! IMO it doesn't add pressure to the chain on acceleration and when the bike get on decel (this is when the back side of the chain get under tension) it simply laid against the chain guide.
 

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the tensioner needs to be automatic because the average person can't be trusted to correctly adjust cam chain tension.

i can't think of a single modern production bike that doesn't have an automatic tensioner.
 

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the tensioner needs to be automatic because the average person can't be trusted to correctly adjust cam chain tension.

i can't think of a single modern production bike that doesn't have an automatic tensioner.
That's one of the issues I have with modern bikes. The old spring loaded pushrod gage type was fine... check/adjust it every oil change and check your points at the same time... file points if needed. In the quest for convenience, we have taken away a fundamental connection to motorcycling... maintenance, some kids don't even know what a nut and bolt check is. Motorcycles are not another appliance, they are a direct connection to you and your enjoyment of life and the experience of riding. Ok... I feel old now...
 

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Bulldog, I haven't heard solid statistics on it. Seems even riders who have installed the newer CCT have had trouble. I'm going with the APE, already have it, will install during the next oil change.
 

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Automatic/oil pressure assisted tensioners are, generally, lower maintenance.... However, they are not used in performance bikes by professionals because when RPM drops, and oil pressure does as well, slack is introduced, which is not desirable. Dynamic tensioners are great for the non mechanically inclined, but they are not ideal, by design.
 

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Questions

Marthy, thanks for the great how-to. I've done a fair bit of wrenching on other parts of bikes but when it comes to engines I'm a bit timid.

From step 1. “A 19mm socket is required to turn the engine over CCW. Turn until the timing marks line up inside the small hole”
Which timing mark? Isn’t there more than one? How is it labeled etc? Also the crank turns twice for each turn of the cams, but for this that doesn’t matter?

“3. Here I will suggest you to go an extra step. Removing the RH side cover will make sure the chain doesn't skip a tooth and it will make it much easier to adjust the chain. I use my plier and some duct tape on the tip of the pliers to gently wedge between the engine case and the CCT slider.”

So the point isn’t to make the guide tighter. You just want to keep it from being looser while there isn’t a CCT in place? I might use a socket wrapped in a shop towel.

Gasket for the timing chain cover:
The only thing I can find in the Yamaha shop manual for this this the torque for the 8 Allen heads, 8.7 foot / pounds. So if the original isn’t torn or delaminated etc just reuse it? I have a new one if needed. Only the gasket is needed, no additional sealers etc? Any other related tips for this?

On page 5-10 of the shop manual it is called the Timing chain cover and gasket. But in the parts diagram: PartShark.com
It is #26 Oil pump cover and gasket. No, the oil pump is below the clutch and covered by the clutch cover. If anyone else wants to order the gasket it is:
GASKET, OIL PUMP Cover 1RC-15456-00-00

I'm going to combine the APE install with the 2nd oil change and a low profile drain plug.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Took me few turn to find it out too. Its like a triangle, flat on top and at an angle on the bottom. You kind of see it when you zoom in the picture. Line it up with the line on the case.

 

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A couple more questions...

Does the engine temperature while doing the APE install make any difference? Warm is ok?

How much chain play should you feel at the guide? Both before and after backing out the APE 1/2 turn.


Note:
The Allen key for the APE adjuster is 4mm (or that size works, a 5/32 inch Allen key also works well). But the lock nut is in inches, both the wrench size and threads. The wrench size is 11/16 inch but I don't have one, seems a 18mm wrench will work, a bit loose but it doesn't need high torque.
 

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As I understand it, simply lining up that mark does not ensure proper cam alignment, at BTDC.

You want it on the compression stroke, which you cannot determine unless you remove the valve cover too.
 

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Yeah Fizzer, but the way Marthy wedges the chain guide to prevent slack I don't know if the crank and cam position is critical. But it is what Marthy did, so I will. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #33
When I did it the engine wasn't on the timming mark when it skip a tooth, it was a major PITA to line everything up.

The timming mark are NOT at TDC but at some odd degree before or after, can't remember on top of my head. That required the removal of the gas tank, airbox, valve cover and radiator. There's 2 timming mark on the cams and the one on the LH side through the little hole.

The thing is, an inline 4 stay in balance while at TDC because of everything happen at 180 deg interval. The triple does it every 120 deg. It was quite a lot of work to line up everything in synch with each other... $hit was moving around a lot! I consider myself a bit above average mechanic... and it was difficult even for me. So I can imagine for someone with minimum tools and understanding to get in deep as I had to do...

So believe me, wedging a set of pliers make thing much easier...
 

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Right, removing the side cover and securing the chain makes sense... But since the timing mark cannot indicate compression or exhaust stroke, it's pointless to line it up, unless you are removing the valve cover.

The mark represents 125 degrees BTDC.

I wouldn't waste time lining it up on the mark, because you don't know what stroke it is on anyway...
 

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Discussion Starter #35
You are right... lining up the mark is more if you have a Oh $hit moment and need to line everything up. I guess as long as the chain don't come loose your fine. If not you're in for an adventure or a flat bed LOL

Or you call Marthy and get him a flight tickets. LOL
 

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Also Marthy, When your putting tension on your CCT and got it where you liked....about how much play in the chain did you have...like back and fourth movement.

I think it be good to add that in there for a "general" reference.

I had about 1/4" "play" back in fourth
 

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Discussion Starter #38
When I did it and add tension until the chain stop moving from side to side then back up the adjuster as mention in the instructions. 1/2 turn or something like that. It is not rocket science IMO, +/- 1/4 turn won't make the engine blow up. Just make sure it's not over tight and since we all know how it sound when it get loose... add 1/4 turn at the time then to stop the noise.
 

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I ordered my APE CCT a week or so ago and have been working up the courage to replace the stock one. Couple of questions though. What exactly does the center bolt of the stock CCT do? I plan to wedge something in between the engine case and the slider just to be safe. But if that center bolt keeps any pressure on the slider I would think it should be wedged in prior to removing it. Aside from that I feel confident that I can get it appropriately adjusted; I just don't want to skip a tooth.

During the adjustment it doesn't sound too terribly precise. How easily can these things skip a tooth? I'm just curious if I don't tighten the tensioner perfectly to within half a turn how much room for error is there?

Any tips on how to properly adjust let me know!
 
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