When I did it the engine wasn't on the timming mark when it skip a tooth, it was a major PITA to line everything up.

The timming mark are NOT at TDC but at some odd degree before or after, can't remember on top of my head. That required the removal of the gas tank, airbox, valve cover and radiator. There's 2 timming mark on the cams and the one on the LH side through the little hole.

The thing is, an inline 4 stay in balance while at TDC because of everything happen at 180 deg interval. The triple does it every 120 deg. It was quite a lot of work to line up everything in synch with each other... $hit was moving around a lot! I consider myself a bit above average mechanic... and it was difficult even for me. So I can imagine for someone with minimum tools and understanding to get in deep as I had to do...

So believe me, wedging a set of pliers make thing much easier...

 

When I did it the engine wasn't on the timming mark when it skip a tooth, it was a major PITA to line everything up.

The timming mark are NOT at TDC but at some odd degree before or after, can't remember on top of my head. That required the removal of the gas tank, airbox, valve cover and radiator. There's 2 timming mark on the cams and the one on the LH side through the little hole.

back when i first got the service manual, i looked at the pages referencing valve adjustment and camshaft installation. you need to remove the cams to adjust the valve clearances, but the instructions are in two different sections of the manual.

the instructions for valve adjustment say that lining up the crankshaft timing mark brings piston #1 to tdc compression when the cam lobes are facing away from each other. the instructions for camshaft reinstallation on the other hands says that lining up the crankshaft timing mark brings piston #1 to 125° before tdc (btdc125). the information seems conflicting.

very recently (actually, last night) i was looking through the service manual more closely and it hit me. there are TWO timing marks on the crankshaft!

tdc:

btdc125

they're different, but easy to miss if you weren't expecting it.

with two timing marks, the instructions for both valve adjustment and camshaft installation make sense.

the first mark (single line) brings piston #1 to top dead center compression when the cam lobes are facing away from each other. this is used to check valve clearances. you then rotate the crank 240 degrees to check cylinder 2, then another 240 degrees for cylinder 3.

the second mark (2 lines) brings piston #1 to 125° before top dead center and is for installing the cams. there are marks on the cams that you then line up with marks on the cam caps for correct cam timing. these marks can also be used as a visual check of correct cam timing post installation.

marthy, it sounds like you were using the btdc125 timing mark, so that's why you found that cylinder 1 wasn't really at top dead center and why your engine didn't grenade after you reinstalled the cams. it's a good thing you didn't use the true tdc mark to drop the cams in!

 

Right, removing the side cover and securing the chain makes sense... But since the timing mark cannot indicate compression or exhaust stroke, it's pointless to line it up, unless you are removing the valve cover.

The mark represents 125 degrees BTDC.

I wouldn't waste time lining it up on the mark, because you don't know what stroke it is on anyway...

 

You are right... lining up the mark is more if you have a Oh $hit moment and need to line everything up. I guess as long as the chain don't come loose your fine. If not you're in for an adventure or a flat bed LOL

Or you call Marthy and get him a flight tickets. LOL

 

Also Marthy, When your putting tension on your CCT and got it where you liked....about how much play in the chain did you have...like back and fourth movement.

I think it be good to add that in there for a "general" reference.

I had about 1/4" "play" back in fourth

 

Also I'd like to know how much play you feel before and after you back the APE off 1/2 turn.

 

When I did it and add tension until the chain stop moving from side to side then back up the adjuster as mention in the instructions. 1/2 turn or something like that. It is not rocket science IMO, +/- 1/4 turn won't make the engine blow up. Just make sure it's not over tight and since we all know how it sound when it get loose... add 1/4 turn at the time then to stop the noise.

 

Thats how I did it Marthy and I ended up with very little play.

Its nice to see a forum were people help people out and not just bash the shit out them

 

I ordered my APE CCT a week or so ago and have been working up the courage to replace the stock one. Couple of questions though. What exactly does the center bolt of the stock CCT do? I plan to wedge something in between the engine case and the slider just to be safe. But if that center bolt keeps any pressure on the slider I would think it should be wedged in prior to removing it. Aside from that I feel confident that I can get it appropriately adjusted; I just don't want to skip a tooth.

During the adjustment it doesn't sound too terribly precise. How easily can these things skip a tooth? I'm just curious if I don't tighten the tensioner perfectly to within half a turn how much room for error is there?

Any tips on how to properly adjust let me know!

 

You need to wedget the pliers first then remove the old CCT. The middle bolt give you access the the adjuster inside...

The pliers won't put a lot of pressure in the chain, just keep the slider from backing off and the chain to skip. If you move the chain side to side as you adjust the APE CCT, you will feel the tension in the chain build up... then remove the pliers to get a better feel. Incease the CCT pressure until the chain is about to stop moving... don't over do it. Then spin the engine with your ratchet to see if the chain get any more loose and adjust if necessary. Then back off thr adjuster as instructed. Tight and button everything back up... and your done.

 

I just don't understand the difference between the OEM center bolt and the APE one. APE's is simple. If we were removing it I'd say wedge the slider and then back out the center bolt and remove and so on; where as in your first post you take the center portion of the OEM CCT out first. Just not sure why it was removed before wedging something in to hold the slider in place.

And stupid question, but when you say "move the chain side to side" I assume you are speaking relative to the bike; aka left side to right side as opposed to front wheel to rear wheel.

Thanks for the help. Sounds simple enough, but one lil mistake can unleash a world of hurt. Just trying to make sure i know exactly what I'm doing before I start opening things up.

 

Got it. I removed the Fizzer kit from the OEM CCT before dumping it. Absolutely no need to remove the center bolt on the OEM CCT, just the 2 allen bolts on each side. The OEM is sort of spring loaded/hydraulic and the APE is completely manual. Pretty much a long bolt with a jam nut. The OEM has a bolt there that work as a duct cover to the real adjuster inside. Once it's all done you can play with the OEM one to see how it doesn't work LOL

 

You can wedge some thing between the guide and case before touching the old CCT. I used a socket with one layer of shop rag wrapped around it. Doesn't stick out as far as pliers for me to bump out of place accidentally. Yeah, I'm the kind that would do that...

 

Haha alright, that makes more sense. Was just curious if there was any actual need to remove that center bolt/nut off of the oem CCT before taking the cover off.

Thanks for the input on the socket. I'm sure i'll just find something lying around once I get it opened up.

As for moving the chain side to side; was I correct in my assumption as that being left to right as opposed to front wheel to back wheel?

Think that is my last question at least. Now just to get it adjusted correctly!

 

Haha alright, that makes more sense. Was just curious if there was any actual need to remove that center bolt/nut off of the oem CCT before taking the cover off.

if you remove that center bolt, and stick a 3mm allen into the adjuster, it locks the tensioner rod in place so that when you undo the tensioner bolts, the tensioner body won't shoot out from the spring pressure.

it's just to make removing the tensioner a bit easier.

 

Yes you're right. Side eof the bike to side of the bike.

 

so when the tensioner rod shoots out, is there a bolt the unscrews due to the spring pressure? Only thing I can think of is that the allen will just keep some bolt from spinning off due to the pressure?

But that makes sense. I remember seeing some discussions on how when you just pull it out it springs apart. Thanks for the heads up!

 

so when the tensioner rod shoots out, is there a bolt the unscrews due to the spring pressure? Only thing I can think of is that the allen will just keep some bolt from spinning off due to the pressure?

nothing comes apart when the tensioner rod fully extends, if that's what you mean. when you insert an allen key into the adjuster, the rod is 'locked' so that it will not shoot out from spring pressure, but if you then turn the allen key, the tensioner rod can be 'screwed' in and out. that's how you pull the rod back into the tensioner body, you wind it back with the allen key. when you pull the allen key out, the rod is unlocked and the spring forces it out. that's the normal mode of operation when the tensioner is installed in the engine.

it sounds confusing when described, but it's easily understood if you had the tensioner in your hands.

 

When you take off the CCT cover on the right side, is there any issue with reusing the gasket? I plan to finally put this guy in tomorrow, and just noticed there is a gasket there.

 

I was able to reuse the gasket. Just be gentle when pulling the cover off... you might be lucky too

 

I bought a new gasket before starting the APE install just in case, but I was able to reuse the original, it's doing fine.

 

Finished earlier this morning... Talk about little clearance

 

So I think I might have left it a hair too loose. On start up this morning (about 57 F) heard the distinctive tick for about 10 seconds then it went away. I assume that ticking isn't normal; I just don't want to over tighten it. Plan to move it in about 1/4 turn at a time till it goes away.

 

And word of warning to anyone taking off the cam chain cover. There is a little metal "pin" that holds the guide in place. You can see it just above the sprocket in marthy's 4th picture (it has what looks like blue sharpie on the end of it). This pin came out with the cover and the guide slid down/back a bit. I didn't realize this until after the fact so I got to go through the whole adjusting process twice.

 

Alright, been a few days. Tightened it a hair twice now (total of about 1/3 a turn), and still have that nasty "marbles shaking in a can" vib under moderate acceleration at around the 4-5k mark. Is there any way to tell if i've tightened it too much aside from measuring the play in the cam chain? I plan to keep inching tighter, but dunno of any signs to keep an eye out for.

 

That should not make any noise. In case of a doubt go back in there and double check the chain play. Only few bolts and the extra 5 minutes will give you peace of mind. Too tight is no good. Add tension until there is almost no play pushing the chain side to side then back off as describe in the instructions.

 

Thanks Marthy. Got mine installed tonight with no issues. The chain had a bit of side to side play after backing off the tensioner and there was no clicking noise after startup so I guess it's in check. I had done the "manual" mod to the factory CCT but it still managed to make noise after a week or so. Seems like that shouldn't have been possible it sure as shit happened all summer.

 

APE tensioner install DONE! No side cover gasket needed; my cover popped right off clean and easy.

That 10 second ticky ticky at startup is the engine making normal noise as the oil makes its way up the passages. Totally normal!

4k-5k rattling that sounds like bb's in a can, means you should tighten the tensioner just a little bit. Maybe ~ 16th of a turn tighter in my experience.

Backing the tension off 1/2 turn as per instructions got it close to correct, but it was too loose and was making plenty of racket even at idle. Maybe 1/4 turn in and had it right there in the sweet spot.

After seeing what the jam screw can do to the stock tensioner (can crack/break the inner adjuster nut), I kind of regret advising people to do that in the first place. What can I say, it's all we had for a fix at the time.

Anyway, thanks for the detailed write up. Thank you APE for providing a solid solution for us!

 

Wouldn't ever hold it against you bro! It's all we (did) have at the time.

 

Now, I am sure its been said multiple times, but does the APE cover the oil passage? Or does it need to be plugged? Gonna be placing my order this afternoon. Thanks guys, you ROCK!!!

 

No need to plug the passage.