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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all! Ive been lurking the forums for some time now reading the reviews and waiting for this bike to come out. Ive been to my local dealer a few times and its looking like they'll have them in near the end of this month, early October like most. I currently ride an 2007 Fz6 and have been looking to upgrade for some time now. I have been dead set on the Fz09 until I walked into my dealer again today. They have a brand new 2012 white Fz1 marked down to $7100! Last week I was in there sitting on it and they were asking 10g. So here's my question. I want more low end torque than what I have now. From what ive read the Fz09 is supposed to have a great torquey engine. 65lbs ft at 8500 rpm. However, the Fz1 makes 67lbs ft at 7900 rpm not to mention 10 more Hp over the fz09. So which is going to feel more torquey coming from my Fz6? All the reviews of the Fz1 state how the motor isn't a torque monster like other 1000 nakeds and you gotta rev the motor to feel the power. Whereas the fz09 motor has been praised for its torque. But on paper the Fz1 engine is superior in the low end, and even more on the top end. I want an 09 bad. But for $7100 bucks wouldn't I be getting a better bike in every way (suspension, engine, ect)? Help, someone tell me I'm dead wrong and why the 09 is better or I might pull the trigger.
 

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First of all the FZ1 is an absolutely killer bike. So much torque/power and it handles superbly. Very comfy as well. However, I would wait if I were you because if the FZ-09 is as good as everyone hopes it is, you might kick yourself later. There are always FZ1s out there on the market if the FZ9 comes out and you change your mind about it. Just my $.02
 

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Like Stiffler says you are in the catbird's seat barring someone else buying the FZ1 out from under you. I know the manufacturers pad the weight numbers on the light side but their site shows the FZ1 @ 487 and the FZ09 @ 414lbs. 73 pounds trumps the extra 10 hp any day, plus it is a four cylinder and will have to be wound up more (i think) to get that extra 10 hp. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the responses guys. The 09 definitely has the weight advantage. But wouldn't the better suspension on the Fz1 make up for this in the handling department? The 09 would be more flickable, but the Fz1 has fully adjustable suspension so wouldn't it handle better in the twisties?. I'm surprised no one mentioned the sweet sweet sound of a triple as a selling point. Too bad the Fz1 doesn't have the crossplane R1 motor or I would probably have bought it already. On another note, why are they even making the Fz1 along with the Fz09? The 09 kind of steps on its toes in the market class doesn't it?
 

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I'll take lighter weight and more maneuverability with a little less HP any day of the week. A lot of your personal preference depends on the type of riding that you are going to do on the bike.
 
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First of all the FZ1 is an absolutely killer bike. So much torque/power and it handles superbly. Very comfy as well. However, I would wait if I were you because if the FZ-09 is as good as everyone hopes it is, you might kick yourself later. There are always FZ1s out there on the market if the FZ9 comes out and you change your mind about it. Just my $.02
What he said. The FZ1 is a very well-sorted bike now with terrific brakes, handling, and suspension, not to mention power up the wazoo. This is the 2003 YZF-R1 engine, mate; it pulls like a freight train. If you plan on longer days and long sport-touring rides, I think the spec sheets will tell you the answer. $7100 is absolutely ridiculously good pricewise. But like the man said, just sit tight for a month or so, wait until some serious reviews and good info are available on the Nine, and go from there.
 

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Thanks for the responses guys. The 09 definitely has the weight advantage. But wouldn't the better suspension on the Fz1 make up for this in the handling department? The 09 would be more flickable, but the Fz1 has fully adjustable suspension so wouldn't it handle better in the twisties?. I'm surprised no one mentioned the sweet sweet sound of a triple as a selling point. Too bad the Fz1 doesn't have the crossplane R1 motor or I would probably have bought it already. On another note, why are they even making the Fz1 along with the Fz09? The 09 kind of steps on its toes in the market class doesn't it?
Unless your riding skills are capable of out riding the suspension's capabilities, the suspension difference is a moot point. I'm not saying that your skills aren't up to the task, I'm just saying that there are a lot more riders that cannot ride to the bike's capabilities, than riders that can, and thus need better suspension to be able to push the bike. And let's be honest here....if you or me or anyone else is riding the bike to that level of performance, you need to be doing track days with the bike instead of pushing it that hard on the street.
 

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I rode an FZ1 for a couple days, it did not pull like I thought it would. It felt like a big 600, you had to wind it up over 7000 to get anything out of it, however it was smoooootthh, I couldn't even tell my wife was on the back. If I wanted can fz1 I would buy a used one for $5000 or less, an fz1 might be a better choice if you need wind protection, you are going to ride a lot of two up or all out power is your main concern. To me what is significant about the fz9 is the low weight and nimble handling that comes with it, it's rated for the same power as my SV, but is much lighter.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I rode an FZ1 for a couple days, it did not pull like I thought it would. It felt like a big 600, you had to wind it up over 7000 to get anything out of it, however it was smoooootthh, I couldn't even tell my wife was on the back. If I wanted can fz1 I would buy a used one for $5000 or less, an fz1 might be a better choice if you need wind protection, you are going to ride a lot of two up or all out power is your main concern. To me what is significant about the fz9 is the low weight and nimble handling that comes with it, it's rated for the same power as my SV, but is much lighter.
Okay this is where I'm confused. People say you gotta wind the Fz1 to start making good power, but according to spec sheets it is making more torque sooner than the Fz09. So in lower rpms, wouldn't it be pulling at least as hard as the 09 would? Does the hard hit of Fz1powerband up top make the low end feel like it wasn't all that powerful, when in fact it was but the explosive power in high rpms made the low end feel slow? Sorry if I made that confusing. I just don't see how magazine reviews can say that there isn't a ton of power in the low rpms of the Fz1, while praising the low end power of the 09 when it makes less torque at a higher rpm.

And triplethreat, you are absolutely right. I don't think ide be riding either bike near its limits. I do a lot of commuting on my fz6 now. And take the bike out for joy rides when I'm bored. I think I'm close to the limits on this thing, but its not hard to do as the suspension on the 6 is garbage. On an 09 or fz1 I know I wouldn't be riding to its limits so I guess at this point its negligible.
 

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Okay this is where I'm confused. People say you gotta wind the Fz1 to start making good power, but according to spec sheets it is making more torque sooner than the Fz09.
simple spec sheet numbers can be deceiving because they don't tell the whole story. 65 ft-lbs @ 8500rpm is just one point along the torque curve. it's best to take a look at dyno charts to really see what's happening, but we don't have any for the 09 yet.


So in lower rpms, wouldn't it be pulling at least as hard as the 09 would?
we don't know how the gearing between the bikes compares, either. it's possible that the fz1 has a taller first gear than the 09, so it's entirely possible for the 09 to pull harder even if the fz1 nominally makes more torque at the engine.

the 09 is also carrying substantially less weight, so that's also going to help acceleration (and braking, and handling) and make it feel more punchy.


And triplethreat, you are absolutely right. I don't think ide be riding either bike near its limits. I do a lot of commuting on my fz6 now. And take the bike out for joy rides when I'm bored. I think I'm close to the limits on this thing, but its not hard to do as the suspension on the 6 is garbage. On an 09 or fz1 I know I wouldn't be riding to its limits so I guess at this point its negligible.
the 09 isn't faired and has a smaller tank than the fz1, you might find those to be disadvantages for commuting.

the decision between the 09 and the fz1 boils down to what you want in a bike, and what compromises you're willing to make. either bike will pull harder than an fz6, but there's more to a bike than just how hard it pulls from a stop.
 

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Th3 VVay: The Analysis presented by BW and Tripple (thus far) in making a case (or drawing comparisons) for the FZ-09, vice the FZ1, supersedes anything that I would have to offer. However, to respectfully add to a more robust understanding of why (or why not as the case may be per your analysis), that the FZ-09 is a better all-around bike in its class (with offerings of a little better technology and build quality in a slightly higher class), take a look at “Top Speeds’” article on the MT-09 if you have a moment. Yes, there is a comparison with the FZ8 in a small portion--- but within context --- the FZ-09 is far more capable in numerous areas than the FZ1. After re-reading this article (for about the 10th time), things started to “click” for me. You see — I pay attention to the details “behind the details”. [I'm just that way]. And out of all I have seen and read, I missed some very key points that, in humble opinion, would cause the FZ-09 to outshine the FZ1, as well as the FZ8. Also, the article is oriented towards an MT-09 with ABS. [The allusion for my assessment here comes from the portion which is found at the end of the article in the “Specifications” section. I believe Yamaha has plans to offer an ABS option for the FZ-09 in December of this year. The Top Speed article has stated the wet weight with ABS for the MT-09 branding]. Hope it helps:

2014 Yamaha MT-09 - Top Speed
 
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Thanks for the responses guys. The 09 definitely has the weight advantage. But wouldn't the better suspension on the Fz1 make up for this in the handling department? The 09 would be more flickable, but the Fz1 has fully adjustable suspension so wouldn't it handle better in the twisties?. I'm surprised no one mentioned the sweet sweet sound of a triple as a selling point. Too bad the Fz1 doesn't have the crossplane R1 motor or I would probably have bought it already. On another note, why are they even making the Fz1 along with the Fz09? The 09 kind of steps on its toes in the market class doesn't it?
I owned a 2005 FZ1 for nearly five years and owned a 2003 R1 for a year or so (traded for an R6). I currently own an FZ8 among others, which is in fact an FZ1 without the bodywork and a little less power and weight. Other than that they are virtually identical, using the same frame, swingarm and many other components.

What you are looking at here are apples and oranges. The FZ1 is a great sport/touring bike. The chassis is rock-stable and really the bike is fast as hell. Even the FZ8 is a strong, quick bike and pulls very cleanly from 2K up on the tach, more so even than my 2013 CB1100. The FZ1 has a nice roomy cockpit with just enough forward lean to make long freeway or backroad stretches very doable. The FZ9 OTOH is a lightweight urban motorcycle that will serve well as a commuter and weekend bike and for the occasional long weekend but will likely be found wanting when it comes to long extended time in the saddle and serious backroad scratching.

If you want to combine sport/touring capabilities with a good level of power and handling the FZ8 is a very good compromise between the two.

The FZ1 does not have to be wound up to go like stink; it's an R1 engine tuned for torque and I can guarantee you that R1 motor would pull the front end right up in third gear pulling through 100 mph...if you want more power than that get an FJR1300!
 

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Bear in mind this is not a road test; it is culled directly from press releases from Yamaha Motor Company.

You may want to wait for the road tests to make a decision. There will not be any shortage of FZ1s for a while.
Thank You. Very True. That is a collaborative article. But true nonetheless. However, I’ve seen the ride reviews thus far from our overseas comrades, and I’m awaiting our American rider’s critiques.
 

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I have not yet seen any graphs for the production of torque of the 09 triple over its engine speed range. Does the FZ1 have peaky torque so that there is little low down? And does the 09 have a flat torque curve? I do not have answers but this may be a decent line of enquiry. You can always buy in haste, and repent at leisure! :)
 

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The FZ1 is a beast! Ivan at Ivans performance thinks it is in a class of it own. Not perfect but about $1000-$1500 from it.

$7100 is a great price!
 

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The FZ1 is a beast! Ivan at Ivans performance thinks it is in a class of it own. Not perfect but about $1000-$1500 from it.

$7100 is a great price!
I would agree....for 7100 I would jump all over that FZ1. Its a fun, capable bike with a great suspension. Do a few mods and they come alive big time. The fairing adds a lot of protection for trips, etc.
 
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I would agree....for 7100 I would jump all over that FZ1. Its a fun, capable bike with a great suspension. Do a few mods and they come alive big time. The fairing adds a lot of protection for trips, etc.
I wanted to say that but held off, but yes, that is a stunning price. The FZ1 and FZ9 are so different that you have to consider what you want to do with the bike before buying, though!
 

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FZ1 vs FZ09

What bobby walnuts and others have said...
the FZ1 is relatively peaky, you have to rev the motor to get power.
i own an 08 FZ1 and it is powerful but not torquey, unless revved above 7 grand...by then you doing extralegal speeds already...in first gear. First gear is good for 80 mph, IIRC, and third for 115.

The torque characteristics, I expect are going to be totally different betwen FZ1 and FZ09 hopefully, and while no torque curves have been published for the FZ09, looking at Triumph Triple curves demonstrate they have characteristically flat curves. In fact the peak torque in those curves is essentially the same torque across the entire rev range from 2K rpm to redline. I expect the FZ09 torque to be the same...most of the max stated torque available at low rpms and across the rev range. This is Yamaha's stated objective, to provide excitement in motorcycling without having to accelerate to ridiculous speeds.

The FZ1 is probably only making about 20ft-lb torque at 2K rpm and while it is smooth and will lug the bike in
6th gear at 2K rpm up past 6K rpm and 100mph, it will do it slowly. If you want some excitement, you will have to drop 2,3,4 gears. Side effect of all this revving is poor gas mileage as well.

The reasonable speeds fun is what appeals to me. Motard flavoring is a bonus...tapered handlebars !
 
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