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upgrade suspension for track/twisties or better change the model

  • Change for another model ( comment which one)

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Keep the 2017 fz-09 and upgrade the suspension

    Votes: 9 90.0%
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Hey guys,

I would love to have some input of people that actually raced the bike on track OR went full out carving twisties. Even with an upgraded suspension, is it worth it, or did people change for another model of bike ( mt-10, duke 890r, stripple, etc.).

I do not want a full racing bike, i just want to know if it is worth to put 1-2k in upgrading the suspension, or if the bike geometry is off and i would be better to change bike.

And no, owning 2 different bikes here in canada is not an option!

Ah and btw i'm 6'1 and 230 pounds, and i dont have alot of fat to lose, maybe 10 pounds max ( 13% body fat XD) so this is not an option :p

Thank you guys!
Stock, as delivered, factory shock and suspension settings, for my 09, were set very soft. Observations of pictures, of 09 bikes in most of the YouTube reviews, show soft settings of the front shocks. Of course soft settings are going to get you bad reviews and poor performance of the stock suspension. Adjust your factory front shock and rear shock settings for your weight and riding conditions and you'll be substantially happier when riding. I set my shocks to the stiffest or the heaviest settings front and rear, and I don't seem to be having any difficulty with riding the bike reasonably fast. The bike is not a 200 hp racing machine for the track and improving the suspension will not get you there. Setting the suspension to stiff, or heavy, hard, for racing conditions will probably not make you very happy camper cruising the highways because it will definitely be a bumpy ride. Put plastic tie wire wraps on your chrome shock tubes to verify travel during your riding, racing, and cruising adventures.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
I just came back from trying the Duke890r... it is a pretty nice bike. It gives you alot of confidence. The engine is REALLY linear. there is no power rush anywhere. it is a perfect line, so you hit the rev limiter without a warning hehe. the riding position is nice, but the knees are more bent. It feels light and leaning the bike in the corners is very easy and natural. but it would cost me 8k (canadian $) + my fz-09. The confidence it gives you is 75% the linear trottle. it is very smooth. I'm pretty confident that after upgrading the suspension + clip on + exhaust +tune, i would be more happy with the fz-09. And even with all that, i would still have 4k in my pocket to keep changing the bike. THe duke 890r is great. But after i drove it i wasnt telling myself : OMG THIS BIKE IS AWESOME. It was just... nice? My brain tells me to buy it but my heart is with the CP3. when i went back on my fz-09 and revved it, i was smilling. so hey... i guess ill upgrade the mt/fz.
 

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From the previous trackday, chased by a aprilia tuono. 😄
View attachment 164882
I really couldn't see your body position in the video with the rear facing camera, but it looked like you were hitting your apexes pretty decently, so nice job on that. I do have a coupe of suggestions for you. 1. Instead of coasting so much before turn in, next track day try to run into the corner a little hotter and learn to become a hard braker. Coasting in costs a lot of time and that would be a good place to lower your lap times right off the bat. 2. If you haven't learned to trail brake all the way to the apex, that is something to start working on also. Take it slow and easy while learning it though and practice, practice, practice being smoooooooth on the brakes. Being smooth on the brakes doesn't mean that you can't apply them to maximum, but learning to do it smoothly while applying them hard is a major improvement on getting around the track quicker. 3. And lastly, don't be afraid to downshift while on the brakes hard and coming into the corner. It too is a "practiced" process to be on the front brakes hard..AND speed matching with some downshifts. Of course the HUGE advantage to that is a lot better driver out of the corner once you've passed the apex and are starting to stand the bike back up. I noticed on a lot of the corners that you bike was running at a lot lower RPMs than it should have been on corner exit. Downshift it baby and get that drive out of that corner! (y)
 

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Quality suspension is not cheap, but it sure makes a big difference in what you can do on the bike.
 

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The goal of the question : get a better idea if it is worth to put the money in it, or if there was other design flaw in the way the bike was made. IE : if i put the whole WP package on it, would it be as good on a track as the duke 890r that comes stock with it.
I read everywhere that the duke 890r and the striple are more capable machines for twisties than the mt09 even after the suspension upgrade.... i dont really get why, there must be some geometrical flaws with the mt-09. Probably the riding position? if we put the woodcraft clip-ons on it, would it cure that geometrical issue or not? mmm, Anyway the dealers near me will lend me a duke 890r for 1 hour saturday, i may have an answer after that .
I just came back from trying the Duke890r... it is a pretty nice bike. It gives you alot of confidence. The engine is REALLY linear. there is no power rush anywhere. it is a perfect line, so you hit the rev limiter without a warning hehe. the riding position is nice, but the knees are more bent. It feels light and leaning the bike in the corners is very easy and natural. but it would cost me 8k (canadian $) + my fz-09. The confidence it gives you is 75% the linear trottle. it is very smooth. I'm pretty confident that after upgrading the suspension + clip on + exhaust +tune, i would be more happy with the fz-09. And even with all that, i would still have 4k in my pocket to keep changing the bike. THe duke 890r is great. But after i drove it i wasnt telling myself : OMG THIS BIKE IS AWESOME. It was just... nice? My brain tells me to buy it but my heart is with the CP3. when i went back on my fz-09 and revved it, i was smilling. so hey... i guess ill upgrade the mt/fz.
For someone that weighs 230 pounds the biggest weakness in the previous FZ/MT09 is the chassis. You can stiffen up the suspension and that will help the handling but it also puts more stress on the chassis that can be overwhelmed by a big guy when you put a lot of load on it during hard cornering. I had an FZ09 will fully upgraded suspension and I weighed around 230 when I had it. The flex in the chassis during hard cornering drove me nuts! The chassis took a long time to settle during mid corner corrections.

The chassis on the Duke 890R is much, much stiffer and handles inputs far better. The upgraded chassis in the 2021 MT09 and MT09SP has closed the gap considerably. If you really like the 09 trade it in on an SP and you will be all set. You will have a much better all around package and a bike that can better handle your weight.
 

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Is there flex in the 09 frame? I've heard the forks are a bit long to be ideal for handling and I know the stock suspension is crap, but the frame seems quite sturdy.
 

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Just to review for the people searching for correct suspension answers. Preload does not adjust or compensate for weight. Ignore the people that tell you they weigh 230 lbs and cranked up the preload and now the bike handles. It's not true and in fact many of these people get angry when you dispute this. The CP3 bikes are sprung for about a 185 lb rider. The only way you can compensate for being too heavy or light is to change springs. If you're in the 185 lb range then you can set it up correctly. That doesn't mean it's particularly good as the stock suspension components are as cheap as you can get. That's why they have been able to sell them for $8999 instead of $11,000. A lot of people talk about Dave Moss set ups and I've watched his videos and they make complete sense but, I have to assume he is talking about correctly sprung motorcycles. There's a reason why they make a lot of different size springs for motorcycles.
 

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Is there flex in the 09 frame? I've heard the forks are a bit long to be ideal for handling and I know the stock suspension is crap, but the frame seems quite sturdy.
I can actually confirm this. Not because I know so much or am a great rider. I had K-Tech on both ends of my FJ 09 and it was a sweet riding / handling bike. I traded it for an MT 10 and did K-Tech and couldn't get it close to the FJ 09. When I spoke with Lenny from K-Tech he told me that the CP3's have a lot of frame flex and are a lot more forgiving and easier to set up. That explains bmacz06's quote below. I never rode on the track or hard enough to feel it or even understand it without being told. BTW, this does not mean it's still not a great handling motorcycle. It's an all around bike.
I had an FZ09 will fully upgraded suspension and I weighed around 230 when I had it. The flex in the chassis during hard cornering drove me nuts!
The MT 10 is pretty much the same frame as the R1 and is very rigid and it took a long time and a lot of phone calls to get it right and it'll never be as plush as a CP3. Again as explained by Lenny at K-Tech.
 

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Is there flex in the 09 frame? I've heard the forks are a bit long to be ideal for handling and I know the stock suspension is crap, but the frame seems quite sturdy.
The chassis and suspension work together but many folks think that it just comes down to suspension. I am fortunate to either own or ride many different bikes and this is one thing I really pay attention to. That, and my size, make me more sensitive to how a chassis actually works. Keep in mind that the new frame is lighter while being 50% stiffer. That is a heck of an improvement.

Another bike that I didn't like due to the weak chassis was the last generation KTM Super Duke. When I mentioned the chassis flex many owners thought I was nuts. The new revised bike is 3 times stiffer! If it was so good before how the hell could they do that?

One other note on the previous generation MT's is improved handling by raising the fork tubes in the triple clamps to varying degrees based on rider weight and preference. This does, in effect, shorted the fork tubes and allows less flex while also improving steering feel.
 

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Interesting. Having come from the days of rubber frames. I wonder if the flex is designed in on the 09?
 

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Interesting. Having come from the days of rubber frames. I wonder if the flex is designed in on the 09?
This made me think of the rubber motor mounts on Harleys. I was out having lunch and 2 Harley's pulled up and were sitting at the curb idling. I swear it looked like those motors were going to flop right out of the frame. Do you have to buy a big bucket of chrome lock washers and locknuts for a Harley. How much Locktite do you go through and how many colors to keep parts from rattling off?
More recently I saw a Harley guy go into a coffee shop and he left the bike running in front of the store. He must have stayed in the store for a few extra minutes. It was vibrating so badly that I took a picture of it just as he came out. It was so bad that a bunch of parts bounced beyond the range of my camera. He just sat on it anyway and started blipping the
throttle.

HD.jpeg
 

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Ha! I’ve watched some Harleys idle, and I swear the wheelbase oscillates about half an inch. There’s so much vibration, you cant even focus your eyes on the fork legs!
 

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If they don't have rubber mounts it's the rider who oscillates. There are some who don't mind that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
I ordered the stoltec spring/valve oil kit. And a zx6r shock. But the shock is stuck somewhere in between cadana and usa for the pas 12 days. quite tilting. For the flex thing, I dont think I am at the point where i will notice it. Maybe in some years. And if it happens, I will gladly switch bike. With the rear shock lost somewhere in the customs, I am thinking about an aftermarket. There is almost no reviews about the razor-r lite. Is it ok? I heard that penske 8000e was better than stock, but with it being a Emulsion shock, it is unpredictable on our bikes.
 

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It takes forever to get anything from cadana.
And the same getting anything into Canada from the US. I know Covid has been blamed for every shortage and delay but in this case its probably true.
 

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make sure the cable is 'tight' (least amount of slack you can get without it reving at full steering lock), disconnect the 'push' return throttle cable. That took care of it for me 100%.
I have my cable nice and tight and it feels a lot better, but I haven't pulled the "push" cable, did it really make a big difference?

I also picked up a set of Andreani cartridges for the front, I started to notice that as I push more and more the front end can get a little shake to it. It may be a me thing where I'm not loading the suspension properly, but I'm lead to believe that as the rear end improves you can feel the lower quality in the front. I guess we'll see when I get them from the Italians.
 

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I have my cable nice and tight and it feels a lot better, but I haven't pulled the "push" cable, did it really make a big difference?
I noticed a difference, I think because I'm able to get the 'pull' cable tighter. But it could also be my imagination. It takes like 1 minute to disconnect/reconnect - I think on my XSR all I had to remove was the seat. I didn't remove the whole cable, just disconnected it at the sensor end and I slid a piece of rubber tube over the end of the cable to prevent it from snagging anything as it moves. I'll try to grab a picture later today. Would be nice to hear someone else confirm my insanity.



Won't you please be part of my budding mass hallucination?
 
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