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upgrade suspension for track/twisties or better change the model

  • Change for another model ( comment which one)

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Keep the 2017 fz-09 and upgrade the suspension

    Votes: 9 90.0%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,

I would love to have some input of people that actually raced the bike on track OR went full out carving twisties. Even with an upgraded suspension, is it worth it, or did people change for another model of bike ( mt-10, duke 890r, stripple, etc.).

I do not want a full racing bike, i just want to know if it is worth to put 1-2k in upgrading the suspension, or if the bike geometry is off and i would be better to change bike.

And no, owning 2 different bikes here in canada is not an option!

Ah and btw i'm 6'1 and 230 pounds, and i dont have alot of fat to lose, maybe 10 pounds max ( 13% body fat XD) so this is not an option :p

Thank you guys!
 

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It was worth the $$$ for the quality suspension for me. I did a couple track days on my FZ1 and plan on doing more with the FZ-09. It's a much better bike on the road as well. I absolutely hated the stock shock. It was so bad that even the stock forks felt OK by comparison. I'm only 165 lbs, so at your weight the stock suspension can't be even remotely good.
 
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This seems like a really subjective and personal question. I've never done a track day so, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but from my experience on the street, and from what I've seen and read your personal skill is going to make a bigger difference than the mechanical components you choose to sit on. There are plenty of videos of guys on gold wings passing high end sport bikes on mountain twistys, or guys on little 300cc ninja's passing liter bikes at the track to back this up.
 

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I am not, by any means, an expert. I only have about 20k total miles riding experience. Never done a track day.

What I can say is that in my experience, I whole heartedly agree with Mr. Loco Pothead psycoreefer ( lol, had to use that joke ).

Everyone here bitches about the suspension on the MonsTah-09. I've had no problem ( don't know what I don't know ). I do plan to, at some point, upgrade to Ohlin's shocks, more for the aesthetics than rideability. Maybe when I do so, I'll be blown away like everyone says. But it is also my strong opinion that NO ONE here talks about how to properly adjust their stock suspicion. The solution discussed is always throw money at the problem.

I'll give you one example. Everyone says the throttle is twitchy, and the solution is to flash the ECU. My solution was to flash my brain and learn the throttle, and use it smoothly. Throttle clutch and brake control smoothness were banged into my head by my MSF instructors and I've adjusted. It's twitchy when I become lazy. I know when it's gonna be twitchy and I USE the twitchiness to my advantage when I wanna overtake or get out of a sticky situation. FULL BEANS MOFO! I do not know what voodoo Vcyclenut is doing that takes away the "twitchiness", it sounds to me like by removing the twitchiness, he's decreasing the responsiveness of the engine??? But people love him for the ECU flashes. Hey, I'm here to tell you to go talk to Vcyclenut since everyone RAVES about his services. I do not intend anything negative in the above comment. He can bear witness I've recommended him many times. I've had a chat with him about my wants/needs as well and he was most awesome to chat with. Heck, I'll probably be buying a kit to flash my bike at some point as well.

Same with the stock suspension. Everyone upgrades instead of talking about adjusting the stocks. Look, I'm no idiot, I've lurked on the interwebs and I have seen reviews from experts saying that the stock shocks on the MT/FZ are garbage. Who the fudge am I to say the experts are also wrong? But I also don't hear the experts talking about how they attempted to adjust them to suit that experts weight and riding style. So I take all accounts of "garbage suspension" with a grain of salt. Again, I don't know what I don't know. So take my shit with a grain of salt too.

If you tell me you went to expert riding classes, track day classes, and spoke with a suspension expert and all that experience tells you the MT/FZ suspension cannot be suitably adjusted, then ok, you have your answer. But if you never clicked anything on your suspension and you are thinking about throwing money at the problem...

My point here is, first the human needs to be flashed, calibrated and adjusted. Throwing money at the problem but never investing in the main part of the equation will only give you the placebo effect. Sure you'll be happy you have shinny new parts, but are you being overtaken on the track by a 300cc dude??? Or a dude on a Battle Tank Honda Goldwing???
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am not, by any means, an expert. I only have about 20k total miles riding experience. Never done a track day.

What I can say is that in my experience, I whole heartedly agree with Mr. Loco Pothead psycoreefer ( lol, had to use that joke ).

Everyone here bitches about the suspension on the MonsTah-09. I've had no problem ( don't know what I don't know ). I do plan to, at some point, upgrade to Ohlin's shocks, more for the aesthetics than rideability. Maybe when I do so, I'll be blown away like everyone says. But it is also my strong opinion that NO ONE here talks about how to properly adjust their stock suspicion. The solution discussed is always throw money at the problem.

I'll give you one example. Everyone says the throttle is twitchy, and the solution is to flash the ECU. My solution was to flash my brain and learn the throttle, and use it smoothly. Throttle clutch and brake control smoothness were banged into my head by my MSF instructors and I've adjusted. It's twitchy when I become lazy. I know when it's gonna be twitchy and I USE the twitchiness to my advantage when I wanna overtake or get out of a sticky situation. FULL BEANS MOFO! I do not know what voodoo Vcyclenut is doing that takes away the "twitchiness", it sounds to me like by removing the twitchiness, he's decreasing the responsiveness of the engine??? But people love him for the ECU flashes. Hey, I'm here to tell you to go talk to Vcyclenut since everyone RAVES about his services. I do not intend anything negative in the above comment. He can bear witness I've recommended him many times. I've had a chat with him about my wants/needs as well and he was most awesome to chat with. Heck, I'll probably be buying a kit to flash my bike at some point as well.

Same with the stock suspension. Everyone upgrades instead of talking about adjusting the stocks. Look, I'm no idiot, I've lurked on the interwebs and I have seen reviews from experts saying that the stock shocks on the MT/FZ are garbage. Who the fudge am I to say the experts are also wrong? But I also don't hear the experts talking about how they attempted to adjust them to suit that experts weight and riding style. So I take all accounts of "garbage suspension" with a grain of salt. Again, I don't know what I don't know. So take my shit with a grain of salt too.

If you tell me you went to expert riding classes, track day classes, and spoke with a suspension expert and all that experience tells you the MT/FZ suspension cannot be suitably adjusted, then ok, you have your answer. But if you never clicked anything on your suspension and you are thinking about throwing money at the problem...

My point here is, first the human needs to be flashed, calibrated and adjusted. Throwing money at the problem but never investing in the main part of the equation will only give you the placebo effect. Sure you'll be happy you have shinny new parts, but are you being overtaken on the track by a 300cc dude??? Or a dude on a Battle Tank Honda Goldwing???

Well I agree with you. I already went to a specialist and the suspension cannot be ajusted anymore. It is better than it was before ajustment.

The goal of the question : get a better idea if it is worth to put the money in it, or if there was other design flaw in the way the bike was made. IE : if i put the whole WP package on it, would it be as good on a track as the duke 890r that comes stock with it.
 

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I already went to a specialist and the suspension cannot be adjusted anymore.
That's a different story, as I indicated originally. You have you answer. Engage the parts cannon.

As for how it will perform against X bike... I'm not your guy.

I can say this. This is a fun bike. I've heard many take it to the track and NOT bitch. Is it a litter race made bike??? Certainly not. But a liter race bike is not a road bike either.

In my experience, is it an awesome road bike??? HELL, with capital letters, yes. So, the question is... is it a good half way bike for both occasions? I would say, without any track day experience and lurking on this forum, FUDGE YEAH!
 

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Honestly, I've seen FZ09 riders on stock suspension have a damn good time railing in the twisties.

It has been said many times that dragging pegs on the track is an issue.
 

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It has been said many times that dragging pegs on the track is an issue.
From novice here, this is, in my opinion, such a subjective argument. I've dragged the pegs 2 times in my 20k experience life. Those where scary moments. I've purposefully tried to drag them again, but I have not been able to. Call me a scared P.... I don't care. I'm being a road ( careful ) warrior. I want to drag the pegs again, but I think I need instruction for this. I don't want to push my luck on my commute to work.

If dragging your pegs on the track is a downside to this bike... LOL... I'm safe then???
 

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Holio, remove the peg feelers and you will never have to worry again. Besides dragging pegs is way overrated. Now dragging crash bobbins will get your attention.
 

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the peg feelers and you will never have to worry again.
I don't understand what you mean here. Can you elaborate? Maybe I'm missing something.

Besides dragging legs is way overrated. Now dragging crash bobbins will get your attention.
This also. I think I get it??? but I'm not sure, tho. Besides the obvious... If you are dragging your crash bobbins, YOU ARE WAY too leaned over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I don't understand what you mean here. Can you elaborate? Maybe I'm missing something.



This also. I think I get it??? but I'm not sure, tho. Besides the obvious... If you are dragging your crash bobbins, YOU ARE WAY too leaned over.
Nah you cant lean too much except when you scrape your balls on the pavement :p
 

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Honestly, I've seen FZ09 riders on stock suspension have a damn good time railing in the twisties.

It has been said many times that dragging pegs on the track is an issue.
This is my problem. I'm literally camping out of the back of my truck right now in the VIR South Paddock for our track day tomorrow. I am going to work on my feet position to see if I can stop dragging my toes. If I'm still dragging my pegs, I'm getting woodcrafts.

As for the OP.
My vote is do it. :)
 

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164747

Brent and I have the same suspension set up. Penske in the rear and stiffer springs and valves in front. I had a low side while riding with Brent and Darf at CMP track day. We all three were working on body positioning (dragging a knee). My pegs and boots were scraping so I could of hung off the FZ a lot more to keep this low side from happening. My stator cover scraped and might have caused the front to give away.

So I'd say the FZ is a fun comfortable track day bike. But, if you're planning to do a lot of track days I'd go with more of a supersport. The FZ is the best commuter ever and a blast in the mountains so money you spend on suspension won't be wasted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
View attachment 164747
Brent and I have the same suspension set up. Penske in the rear and stiffer springs and valves in front. I had a low side while riding with Brent and Darf at CMP track day. We all three were working on body positioning (dragging a knee). My pegs and boots were scraping so I could of hung off the FZ a lot more to keep this low side from happening. My stator cover scraped and might have caused the front to give away.

So I'd say the FZ is a fun comfortable track day bike. But, if you're planning to do a lot of track days I'd go with more of a supersport. The FZ is the best commuter ever and a blast in the mountains so money you spend on suspension won't be wasted.

This is the kind of answer i was looking for ;).

How much the whole suspension upgrade cost you?

Thanks!
 

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I can't really speak to track experience but I just put the Penske double clicker in the rear and did the Stoltec valve kit with new springs up front. The suspension is a significant upgrade which made a huge difference but I started playing with rear ride height and I am stoked how much easier the bike turns in now with adding 4mm length (about 9.5mm height at the axle) in the rear. Before the suspension upgrade I rode the stock suspension with the front forks dropped 10mm and raising the rear makes the bike feel significantly different.

For you to determine if it's worth the upgrade or to buy a new bike depends on a lot of factors in my mind. What other upgrades do you think you'll want/need? (ie brakes, ecu tuning, clip ons, rearsets). Ideally if you buy drop in fork cartridges and a good rear shock assembly like the Penske you can always convert the bike back to stock if you choose to sell it. You will be able to sell the cartridges and shock to recover a good chunk of the cost if you find you've outgrown the bikes capabilities on the track when or if you choose to upgrade to another bike.

Being a Canadian myself I also feel the 09s have a significant savings in insurance costs, at least when I get quotes on the 09 vs. the 890r or Mt-10.
 

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Ive done a few track days on my old 2014. Not on my 17 yet.
2014 had penske rear and stoltec fpk front.
2017 has tfx rear and ohlins nix 30 front.
At 230lbs, you are about 75lbs over what the stock suspension is rated for. So it sits lower than it should. So it scrapes everything sooner than it should.
Suspension is a mod that always gives back. Riding slow, fast, dodging cars who try and kill you or flicking through esses at the track, it ALWAYS makes a difference. And becasie the stock 09 suspension, especially the rear is really bad, its the best bang for buck mod.

An 09 with sorted suspension at the track is awesome.
Add full size rotors and it is even better.
 

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I haven't done track days, but now that I have the Andreanis and Nitron sorted with Road 5's on, I can't imagine that many bikes would be better in the tight and medium speed twisty's I like. It's flickable, stable at lean and up to 180 km/h, and bumps don't throw it off line.
This is at a speed a little less the nuts.
 
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