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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, the battery has been giving some issues and I am still testing possibilities of what is causing it. It is the stock battery.
I am in NYC and temperature have been plummeting and hanging in the 20s and low 30s for many days now. Sometimes it goes to below ten or even below zero.

To keep me warm and safe, I hooked up some new things- a extra 12V harness for glove liners and 4 strips of LEDs (running and brake) on the topcase.
I did not have problems before that- I have heated grips, 12V gloves, alarm system and a 12V/5V USB socket connected to the battery.


This is what happens- usually after the bike has been resting for about 6-8 hours (temperatures have been 20s-30s):


- I turn the ignition on. I turn on heated grips, connect the topcase lights to the harness, hook up my heated gloves, wait for engine to get to operating temperature and move.

- After 20-50 feet, I encounter a traffic light

- As engine is idling, the engine cuts off! It takes about 2-3 cranks to get the bike started. The gloves have lost power and I have to switch them on again (VH gloves have controls on top of the gloves).

- I sometimes let the engine run for a while with only heated grips on and then switch on the gloves after a mile or two. Then it works fine.

- Then I hit a bridge- I decide to gas it to 60-70mph. The gloves switch off again!

Thankfully, the engine never dies while idling again. I just have to switch the gloves on again.

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Note- these gloves have a regulator that is required to safeguard against spikes in power.

Do the battery gurus think that the battery is spiking when I twist the throttle hard?

And is the battery too cold to give power initially to everything that is hooked to it and that's why it kills the engine?

Also, is the battery capable of handling all these loads? Or should I get a more powerful (and hopefully smaller in size) battery?

How do I measure the loads live?

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I would appreciate all feedback and comments.

Thanks!
 

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I would think a good starting point would be checking power draw specs on all you add-ons and comparing the total to your battery output. Temperature could also affect the output of the battery.

Other opinions on this may shed additional light.
 

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I am not sure about the battery spiking? But the charging system on the bike does not charge the battery at idle. From what I can find in the service manual, you have to be running at 5000 rpm to charge the battery at 14 volts. So if you have all your heater gear turned on at lower rpm's, you will slowly draining down the battery.

I wonder if your gloves are turning off because of low voltage?

This is a real problem for dual sport guys running DR650SE, with it's little 200 watt stator.

The 09's charging system is rated for:
AC magneto
Standard output 14.0 V, 415 [email protected] r/min
Stator coil resistance 0.152-0.228 n (W·W)
 

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instead of coffee breaks, I take fz09.org & drriders.com breaks :rolleyes:

I also have a copy of the 09 & DR, Owners and Service Manuals in PDF format on my computer.

Thank god for copy & paste, lol.

Plus lots of guys have run into the same problem with heater gear and accessories on their DR's. Some guys have to turn off their gear when they get stuck at a stop light. In fear of killing the battery if they have to sit there too long.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am not sure about the battery spiking? But the charging system on the bike does not charge the battery at idle. From what I can find in the service manual, you have to be running at 5000 rpm to charge the battery at 14 volts. So if you have all your heater gear turned on at lower rpm's, you will slowly draining down the battery.

I wonder if your gloves are turning off because of low voltage?

This is a real problem for dual sport guys running DR650SE, with it's little 200 watt stator.

The 09's charging system is rated for:
AC magneto
Standard output 14.0 V, 415 [email protected] r/min
Stator coil resistance 0.152-0.228 n (W·W)
Thanks! That's so useful to know...I guess, I barely keep the revs at 5k rpm and thats why the low voltage and engine dying?
But how does it explain the fact that the gloves turn off when I accelerate faster and more aggressively- 5-6k rpm being the shift points?

Also, what can I use to monitor these surges/drops on the go?
 

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first, check all of your electrical connections. should all be tight with no corrosion.

go through the user's manuals for your gear and add up the power draw values. you should always be aware of how much additional load you're putting on the charging system when you add electrical accessories.

my gut says heated grips and gloves plus some led lights shouldn't be overwhelming anything if your battery and charging system are in good shape. and your battery and charging system do seem to be in decent shape, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to start the bike in sub freezing temps. it takes a lot of juice to crank a cold engine in winter.

but test your battery and charging system anyway. the next time you go start your bike in the morning, with a voltmeter across the battery terminals, do these steps in the following order making note of what voltage reading you get at every step:

- ignition off, gear off, everything off, stone cold battery. (i.e. do this first thing in the morning). a fully charged battery should give you 12.8v
- turn the ignition key and engine run switch on, but don't start the bike. leave your gear off. make a note of the voltage - there shouldn't be a huge difference between this and the first measurement.
- now turn your gear on (everything else should still be on but don't start the engine). note the voltage. again, shouldn't be a huge voltage difference between this measurement and the previous.
- turn your gear off and start the bike. voltage at the battery should be at least 14v, even at idle.
- (this step should be done once the engine's fully warmed up, or after you've done a bit of riding.) rev the bike up to about 5k rpm, and then briefly to 8k or so. voltage should go up slightly, but shouldn't ever exceed 15v even if you peg the limiter.

get back to us with the voltage readings.

the stalling issue may not necessarily be related to the electrics. and similarly, regarding the gloves switching off by themselves, there might be a problem with your gloves. contact the manufacturer and see what they have to say.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
first, check all of your electrical connections. should all be tight with no corrosion.

go through the user's manuals for your gear and add up the power draw values. you should always be aware of how much additional load you're putting on the charging system when you add electrical accessories.

my gut says heated grips and gloves plus some led lights shouldn't be overwhelming anything if your battery and charging system are in good shape. and your battery and charging system do seem to be in decent shape, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to start the bike in sub freezing temps. it takes a lot of juice to crank a cold engine in winter.

but test your battery and charging system anyway. the next time you go start your bike in the morning, with a voltmeter across the battery terminals, do these steps in the following order making note of what voltage reading you get at every step:

- ignition off, gear off, everything off, stone cold battery. (i.e. do this first thing in the morning). a fully charged battery should give you 12.8v
- turn the ignition key and engine run switch on, but don't start the bike. leave your gear off. make a note of the voltage - there shouldn't be a huge difference between this and the first measurement.
- now turn your gear on (everything else should still be on but don't start the engine). note the voltage. again, shouldn't be a huge voltage difference between this measurement and the previous.
- turn your gear off and start the bike. voltage at the battery should be at least 14v, even at idle.
- rev the bike up to about 5k rpm, and then briefly to 8k or so. voltage should go up slightly, but shouldn't ever exceed 15v even if you peg the limiter.

get back to us with the voltage readings.

the stalling issue may not necessarily be related to the electrics. and similarly, regarding the gloves switching off by themselves, there might be a problem with your gloves. contact the manufacturer and see what they have to say.


Thanks. I will be able to do this test only this weekend or if I get up early enough tomorrow!
I have asked about the gloves...hopefully they get back to me as well- but @Rocky_MTN_FZ09 did mention it was a problem on bikes with smaller batteries.



I use Mobile Warming rechargeable battery gear. I can wear it independently from the bike, too.
I have a VH battery operated base layer shirt- problem is the batteries can run out after 3 hours of high..if not sooner. I got a AG XP1 battery pack that can not only jump start the bike if needed but also charge my phones or alternately use to give power to my heated gloves even when off the bike! :D


You can also get something like this to keep an eye in your charging system.

Kuryakyn LED 12 Volt Battery Gauge - RevZilla
I think I will have to get this or something similar...thanks for posting
 

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If I were doing the voltage test as suggested, I'd do it after the bike was totally warmed up. Revving to 5k and 8k sounds a bit risky on a cold engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I just had a thought- before I go testing the battery in a bit- does anyone think my LED strip install could be causing the issue? I suspect that may be the cause because really, the heated gloves themselves never gave any problem and the second harness isn't on most of the time. While returning home today, the bike did die again when I started to idle and every now and then I felt that there was a hesitation in fuelling- maybe not enough power going to the ECU for the fuel injection needs? On carbed bikes, its akin to what happens when fuel goes low and there isn't enough air going into the carb.

For 4 LED strips, I managed to convert them in to running/brake light with help of some diodes. However, I did not use any 12V regulator and I hooked the ground to the tail light ground. I plan to get the regulator tomorrow and was thinking if I should hook the ground to the battery directly with a ring terminal.

Obviously, I could be wrong about all of this- not a big electrician and was kicked when I figured the diodes and the clean install of the LEDs. Nothing else jumps to me as a culprit.

Please share your thoughts while I check the battery's voltage shortly- letting it get cold before I do so.
 

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I doubt the LED's suck that much juice. Exhaust & fuel controller? If not just unplug the O2 sensor on the next run... curious? If it was the battery that was too low, you won't have enough juice to restart the bike. You need about 9-10V minimum usually for the bike to run. Or at least that was on our race cars back then.
 

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any self-wiring would be a suspect, all it would take is an intermittent short to kill the bike, honestly this doesn't sound like a 'battery' issue so much as wiring problems.
My bike was just down for its longest period since I picked her up in june, just under two weeks,(xmas day til week after new years) and the battery drained enough in that time that the bike would turn over but not start, until I put it on a charger.


Me? I'd go over ALL wiring changes with a multimeter looking for short to grounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
O2 sensor...hmmm...how would it get affected or have anything to do? Salt and snow that I rode in? Will unplugging the sensor affect anything else or damage anything in the engine? What would be the best way to do this?

As an additional info, I did a test when engine was off when I got back home. I switched gloves on. Pressed the rear brake. Released the brake, and at the same time the brake lights (including the LEDs) went off, the gloves switched off too- twice. That is what made me think of the LEDs.
 

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Should run a bit rich w/o the O2. Might not be the issue but if you ran out of option... try it. Like Snam said... check all connection and wiring first.
 

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As an additional info, I did a test when engine was off when I got back home. I switched gloves on. Pressed the rear brake. Released the brake, and at the same time the brake lights (including the LEDs) went off, the gloves switched off too- twice. That is what made me think of the LEDs.
yep, there's something wrong with the wiring here. the gloves should not be reacting to what the brake lights are doing.


For 4 LED strips, I managed to convert them in to running/brake light with help of some diodes. However, I did not use any 12V regulator and I hooked the ground to the tail light ground. I plan to get the regulator tomorrow
describe exactly how you wired the led strips and diodes and gloves up.

i'm unclear as to why you'd need a regulator. forget about that for now, as that's just going to complicate things.

do you have a link to the led strips you're using?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
yep, there's something wrong with the wiring here. the gloves should not be reacting to what the brake lights are doing.

describe exactly how you wired the led strips and diodes and gloves up.

i'm unclear as to why you'd need a regulator. forget about that for now, as that's just going to complicate things.

do you have a link to the led strips you're using?
Here's the link to the strips I am using: New Waterproof 4pcs 30cm 15 Red LED Car Truck Motors Flexible Strip Light 12V | eBay

Here is a diagram I made to explain the wiring of the LED strips:


Gloves are hooked up via a harness connected to the battery via a powerlet terminal.

A lot of wires are spliced into the tail light/turn signals wires, so maybe it is drawing too much? They are easy to remove- using Posi-locks and Posi-taps. Maybe just hooking the ground wire to the battery directly helps?

As for the regulator, I read during research that I should have it to prevent the 12V rated LEDs from blowing because the battery, while running is close to 14V output. That's why my heated gloves have a regulator as well.

** I used my multimeter to test the charge of the battery before and after starting the engine- everything seemed fine. With ignition off, reading was about 12.3-12.6V.After turning engine on, it was 13.4-13.8V. Those are normal figures, right? I will test the battery with the case and heated gloves tomorrow and see if that makes any difference to the reading.

Hoping it is the wiring as don't want to mess around with the fueling which would take longer to sort out.
 
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