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Yamaha Turkey completed its investigation and reported that everything was normal (31 August 2022).
First of all, glad you're ok. I cannot believe how thin that frame is at such a critical point. I don't understand how the dealer can simply write that off as "everything was normal". Personally, I think that frame should be sent to Yamaha for a much closer inspection, but that's my opinion and I guess that would take several more similar incidents and sadly deaths for that to happen. Let's hope this is an isolated incident because looking at that thin frame material doesn't exactly instill much confidence in it's strength.

I'm curious, are you the first owner of that bike? Could it have been ridden hard by a previous owner who caused unseen frame damage that led to this (sorry if that was answered and I missed it)?
 

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There’s nothing wrong with the chassis design. This is how aluminum frames are made these days. (Have you seen the wheels?!) They’re very light, and perfectly strong enough for what they are designed to do.

Your front end broke because it either hit something, or it went in the air and came down hard. I’m betting on front impact - which was probably what pushed on your brake hose hard enough to crack open the banjo bolt. But your fluid is just dripping out, not pouring. So even if it was dripping like that before the crash, it wouldn’t have caused you to have zero brakes.

Are you sure you didn’t experience a tank-slapper before your crash? The road in your video you posted had some crests where I could see the potential for a tank-slapper. (I don’t know if you crashed on the same road.) A tank-slapper can definitely shake the brake pads apart enough to where your first pull of the brake lever would feel like nothing.

There’s no way “handlebar vibration” would cause a banjo bolt to come loose. Not possible.
 

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Being 'old school', your misfortune points out that going around the bike and checking fasteners for tightness periodically is a good idea on ANY bike.
Also a walkabout before a ride and at gas stops can reveal problems before they reveal themselves catastrophically.
MSF teaches T-CLOCK, which stands for Tires, Controls, Lights, Oil, Chassis and Kickstand.

Glad you are ok!!!!
 

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Just watched some of your riding videos on Instagram. Let's not pretend this bike has fallen off its side stand and snapped in half, you must have left the road at speed and whether you've felt it or not it's had some force go through it.

Yamaha won't want to know and I can't say I blame them. Until people start finding cracks in the frame there's no issue there.

UK journalists certainly put the frame strength through it's paces on their launch video....


Edited to say, I'd never rule out a one-off mechanical defect but unfortunately for you, you'll never know now. Get well soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Your front end broke because it either hit something, or it went in the air and came down hard. I’m betting on front impact - which was probably what pushed on your brake hose hard enough to crack open the banjo bolt. But your fluid is just dripping out, not pouring. So even if it was dripping like that before the crash, it wouldn’t have caused you to have zero brakes.
If I hit something, wouldn't there be a bend in the front rim or the front shock absorbers? Or wouldn't the front tire burst? Or wouldn't the tire pressure decrease?
if i hit something hard i would find myself far from the motorcycle. I was at the head end of the motorcycle after the accident.

So even if it was dripping like that before the crash, it wouldn’t have caused you to have zero brakes.
This means, If my brake worked, I would have done this accident. 🥺
And also, there was no tank-slapper at the time of the accident. If it was i would know that.

There’s no way “handlebar vibration” would cause a banjo bolt to come loose. Not possible.
That's just what came to my mind. I'm not a super technical person, I'm just a driver. Thanks for information.
I'm also looking for what could be the cause of the front brake not working.
When my friends came to me (~5 minute), I told them that the front brake was not working. I never had a chance to inspect the bike because I had a broken ankle. These photos came to me after the accident. I got suspicious when I saw the hydraulics in the master cylinder.

Yamaha Turkey also thinks all the damage was after the crash. I can understand it.
All I knew was that it didn't slow down when I hit the brakes.

Thanks for comments @Moto26
 

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...I'm also looking for what could be the cause of the front brake not working.
Maybe a patch of sand or gravel, which would feel the same during an "Oh Sh*t" moment.
This stuff happens so fast, and I'm just glad you weren't injured more seriously.

Mechanically, hydraulics' have been proven to be pretty bulletproof.
If something holds pressure long enough to make the first ride around the block, it typically will hold tight.
 

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If I hit something, wouldn't there be a bend in the front rim or the front shock absorbers? Or wouldn't the front tire burst? Or wouldn't the tire pressure decrease?
if i hit something hard i would find myself far from the motorcycle. I was at the head end of the motorcycle after the accident.
So hard to know for sure. Motorcycles do some pretty weird things during a crash. You could have ridden into a ditch, and there would have been enough force to break the frame without damaging the wheel. The bike could have cartwheeled. Any number of possibilities.

As for the loss of brakes, again it's a matter of speculation at this point. As @Lone Wolf mentioned, it could have been anything, but if your brakes were working previously to the crash, even a slow leak wouldn't have caused catastrophic failure at the next corner.

One thing is for certain: This bike is definitely not salvageable. You can part it out, but it's not worth trying to rebuild it. Use your insurance and buy a new one..
 

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I agree with you that this is not a typical failure and it seems very strange. I dont think any amount of wheelies should cause such a failure. The bike is meant to be wheelied and I am sure the engineers took this into account when they designed the frame.

If you are claiming the frame had a defect you would have to have a lab inspect the separated surfaces and they would conclude if the failure was stress rupture or indeed fatigue from a defect.
If you are claiming the frame is badly designed then we should start seeing other failures like this.
Otherwise, unfortunately it is just a freak accident that loaded the front end in a way that generated a force that the frame was never intended to take in such a manner.

Regarding the brake failure, I had a leaking master cylinder from a track day crash that I failed to see on my next track day. I only noticed it because the paint was coming off my right glove and smearing on my tank! I had not noticed any loss of brake performance and that was half-way though a day's session! So like others have said a small leak will not cause a sudden brake failure.

Maybe the abs module/pump was not working correctly? Did you recently bleed the brakes?
I had a 2010 CBR1000RR with the horrible C-ABS system which was a PITA to bleed and it happened to me occasionally that one moment I had full lever pressure and on the next bend the lever was soft!

Hopefully you are ok and that is what matters. Let your insurance take care of the rest or try to sell the parts and recoup as much as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Hi @MasterFavelado,

If you are claiming the frame had a defect you would have to have a lab inspect the separated surfaces and they would conclude if the failure was stress rupture or indeed fatigue from a defect.
If you are claiming the frame is badly designed then we should start seeing other failures like this.
Otherwise, unfortunately it is just a freak accident that loaded the front end in a way that generated a force that the frame was never intended to take in such a manner.
I don't know of an official here who can check the chassis.

Maybe the abs module/pump was not working correctly? Did you recently bleed the brakes?
I had a 2010 CBR1000RR with the horrible C-ABS system which was a PITA to bleed and it happened to me occasionally that one moment I had full lever pressure and on the next bend the lever was soft!
My tire set was changed about 1000km ago. I don't think they did anything other than additional maintenance or standard checks.
ABS data is of course also available on Yamaha. But they informed me that they will not share any information. I guess I can only access this information if I initiate legal action. Also this motorcycle is Euro5. I think Euro5 is not just about emission values. For example, can information such as speed data, traction data, braking force be obtained from the motorcycle?

Hopefully you are ok and that is what matters. Let your insurance take care of the rest or try to sell the parts and recoup as much as possible.
Thanks, I am good :)
 

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If you are claiming the frame had a defect you would have to have a lab inspect the separated surfaces and they would conclude if the failure was stress rupture or indeed fatigue from a defect.
True, but that may not sway the dealer or manufacturer.
In this world of litigation, everyone gets a paid whore to say what the client wants to hear.
In my job, I read engineer reports that sound reasonable, completely opposite of the other "expert" report.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
On a personal note, we all try to figure out what we could have done differently after something goes wrong.
My advice could be summed up in one word - "countersteering".

40 years ago, before there were safety courses, I knew Keith Code, he wrote a book called "Twist of the Wrist".
Keith told me about countersteering - and I replied that he was crazy. You don't turn the bars to the left if you want to turn right.

But of course Keith was correct, and I experimented and learned about countersteering.
We all do it instinctively. As a child on a tricycle, you turn left to go left.
With training wheels on a bicycle, you turn left to go left.
Take the training wheels off the bike, and all hell breaks loose. You sort of figure it out, and "riding a bike" becomes an instinct. We don't even think about it.

I had been riding motorcycles for over 10 years when I met Keith, and was riding by instinct.
A couple weeks later I was riding my old Harley sportster too fast in the Hollywood hills and came upon a sharp turn in the road.
I did what Keith said, and countersteered, on purpose, and then did it harder, and made the turn (barely).
That old bike had a drum brake in front, and may not have been much better than what you experienced.

Ever since that day about 40 years ago, I actively KNOW that I am initiating a turn by countersteering.
Once we are into a turn the bars are turned in the direction we are going, but to make the bike turn more, we turn the wrong way which leans the bike into the turn more.
The tires can withstand much more than what my small brain thinks they can do when panicked.
If we consciously think about countersteering, it becomes the instinct we react with when faced with a need to change direction.
Hi @Lone Wolf,
By the way, I had motorcycle training (at Honda) Honda Motosiklet Gelişim Merkezi.
They taught it in motorcycle training.
 

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They taught it in motorcycle training.
Awesome - so you know exactly what I am talking about.
For me personally, countersteering is not a 'learn it and forget about it" thing.
I consciously work with it every time I ride.
The highways in California have huge painted arrows showing direction of travel, usually in sets of 2. I will countersteer in order to swerve to the right of the first one, then to the left of the next one.
Then I do the next set of them holding only one hand on the bars, so I have to push, then pull.

When I need to add more lean on a turn, I purposely focus on pushing the bars away from where I am turning, and observe how it leans the bike.
A simple "close call" or near accident is a huge learning experience. I can only imagine what you are going through, and wish could have done it different, regardless if it was mechanical failure of brakes vs. riding too fast vs. patch of sand on the road vs. animal runs out in front of you.
This video is less than 3 minutes, and the best explanation I have seen of how countersteering works. For anyone with a passion for 2 wheels, I recommend embracing countersteering as one of the main things in your toolkit. The reinforced skill will be there for you, when something out on the road doesn't go as expected.
 

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It's possible your memories of what happened might not be entirely accurate, or complete. Trauma or being panicked can affect how memories are formed.
Your bike isn't a MotoGP bike with sensors and transducers logging every conceivable parameter, so we may never know exactly what really happened.

Is there a government agency that oversees vehicle safety in your country? If so, you can try reporting the incident to them.
 

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What a bummer. Did you happen to take any photos of the accident scene?
So puzzling that the frame broke with this described accident. Not that I don't believe you - obviously something happened.
But it would be helpful to see an overview of the scene to understand the forces involved.
There would have to be a hell of a bump, or hitting something.
Observed AFTER the accident, right? From what I can see from the photo, there is damage at the hose from the reservoir to the master cylinder.
The other brake line from the master cylinder to the disc calipers appears intact where it connects to the master cylinder.
You could completely remove a reservoir, and the fluid retained in the master cylinder should provide "some" breaking force for that first squeeze of the brake lever.

On a personal note, we all try to figure out what we could have done differently after something goes wrong.
My advice could be summed up in one word - "countersteering".

40 years ago, before there were safety courses, I knew Keith Code, he wrote a book called "Twist of the Wrist".
Keith told me about countersteering - and I replied that he was crazy. You don't turn the bars to the left if you want to turn right.

But of course Keith was correct, and I experimented and learned about countersteering.
We all do it instinctively. As a child on a tricycle, you turn left to go left.
With training wheels on a bicycle, you turn left to go left.
Take the training wheels off the bike, and all hell breaks loose. You sort of figure it out, and "riding a bike" becomes an instinct. We don't even think about it.

I had been riding motorcycles for over 10 years when I met Keith, and was riding by instinct.
A couple weeks later I was riding my old Harley sportster too fast in the Hollywood hills and came upon a sharp turn in the road.
I did what Keith said, and countersteered, on purpose, and then did it harder, and made the turn (barely).
That old bike had a drum brake in front, and may not have been much better than what you experienced.

Ever since that day about 40 years ago, I actively KNOW that I am initiating a turn by countersteering.
Once we are into a turn the bars are turned in the direction we are going, but to make the bike turn more, we turn the wrong way which leans the bike into the turn more.
The tires can withstand much more than what my small brain thinks they can do when panicked.
If we consciously think about countersteering, it becomes the instinct we react with when faced with a need to change direction.
Serious question: how would you steer BEFORE you learned of countersteering? Throw your body weight to the side you wanted to turn to? I've always used countersteer to turn/change lanes and can't understand how people don't. It's funny to see the harley guys trying to throw their weight to the side. Maybe you countersteered before but didn't know that was what you were doing?
 

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Serious question: how would you steer BEFORE you learned of countersteering? Throw your body weight to the side you wanted to turn to? I've always used countersteer to turn/change lanes and can't understand how people don't. It's funny to see the harley guys trying to throw their weight to the side. Maybe you countersteered before but didn't know that was what you were doing?
Did you ride bicycles as a kid? I did, and was never taught 'turn right, go left' or even heard of the term countersteering. After a lot of trial and error, your body learns what to do to make the bike change directions, even if you don't grasp exactly what's going on, or how/why it works. In reality, I was countersteering the whole time, I just didn't realize it. With a bicycle, it takes very little steering input to change direction, so maybe that makes it that much harder to understand what's really happening.
 
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