Headshake/wobbles all the time since new

Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

Few weeks into my 18 mt09 and I love it but I have noticed any slight input into the bars sends a bad reaction throughout the bike, I've owned and ridden over a half dozen bikes and never have I experienced anything like this.

Simple shifting when letting off throttle and clutching is enough of an input into steering to cause the wobble and if I manipulate a slight push or pull on the bars it sends a nasty shake throughout the whole bike! I know most of the bikes I've had came or had dampers but the fz1 didn't and neither did my cbr600 so I know that's not normal!

Is it something to do with the rake of the bike or is it normal. I'm just a little worried for when I'm done breaking her in that when she lifts a bit full throttle that God forbid the wheel comes down a little off center that it would cause more tankslap then it should or would be expected given it's so prone and sensitive to it now. Even had a buddy who races bikes take her down the block and put some input in and he said something isn't right...

All the threads I've read say the bike doesn't need a damper and I've gone ahead and ordered one anyway but I'd like some honest input as to should I go to the dealership and say something isn't right or is that the nature of the beast? Would be nice if it's something simple or nothing at all as I would rather ride then have dealer techs tear my bike apart trying to figure it out but I also have 2 kids and 1 on the way and would like to stay safe and alive lol any input would be great. Thanks guys

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Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

Just reread my post and id like to add, I only have about 170 miles on the bike.

Also the slight shake when shifting is just a tiny little jerk up front mostly but does travel down the bike.

When I do put input into the bars on purpose it sends a nasty shake down throughout the bike front and rear not tankslap but deffinetly trying to find it's centerline. It's a tiny input I'm not yanking on the bars and doesn't help to ride loose or tight. I'm talking about maybe 1or2 lb of force probably less then I can do if I was to use just my pinky to slap the bars lol

Like I said imagine just the manipulation of letting off throttle clutching and powering back up in that split second is enough input to the bars to cause something I feel throughout the bike, it's not always when shifting more of on a down shift or a more sprinted upshift but it is there.

Just wanted to clarify before everyone loses their minds thinking I'm drop kicking the bars to get a reaction

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raydeightor · May 9, 2018

My XSR is pretty stable for the type of bike that it is, it doesn't exhibit any of what you are describing. A steering damper isn't going to fix something that is fundamentally wrong. Start with the basics - tire pressure, rear axle alignment, pre-load setting on both ends - make sure they're not cranked all the way up or down, etc. You need to find out what's going on, sounds borderline dangerous to me. At a minimum, you're not getting the full potential of the bike's design. Since it's a new bike I would take it back to the dealer and let them sort it out after checking the simple stuff first The baseline settings are all in the owners manual.

Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

I set rider sag already, preload and comp. Factory had me midrange on everything no change in result. Tire pressure is good. I will go to dealer to see if they can find the flaw, I'm sure the 16 yr old kid (assumption) they pay to assemble isn't a smart cookie

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raydeightor · May 9, 2018

Yeah, sometimes the dealership assembly guy isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Interested to see what they find. Please keep us posted.

Cw09 · May 9, 2018

How much do you weigh ?

Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

185 195 with all gear

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Voided · May 9, 2018

I had similar issues when accelerating that was being caused by my tires. Did you also setup your rear suspension? My resolution was new tires (front & rear), a windscreen, suspension adjustments, and making sure my chain slack/axle alignment was correct.

I did buy a damper for when im hitting curvy roads and riding hard, and it helps a ton with the sketchy wobbles coming over hills, but I made sure to fix my main issue first before so I wasnt masking the issue.

Does it happen more at a certain speed or is it all the time?

Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

It is always there progressivly with more speed more it is felt/intensified

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Rocky_MTN_FZ09 · May 9, 2018

Check your front and back wheel alignment, something is not right if your bike goes into a headshake so easily???

Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

Back is aligned I checked that it's very easy to see but not sure how to check the front it tracks straight but could be the rim/tire is unbalanced but I thought that would be vibrations....

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marthy · May 9, 2018

Drop the front end. On stock suspension I ran 10mm lower and it was fine, the ZX10 rear shock did about the same result rising the rear. Start with 5mm first if you want... that should calm down the front that feel a bit too "light".

1216bandit · May 9, 2018

Dropping the front will make the steering angle steeper and quicken the steering..not the way to go...

marthy · May 9, 2018

Have you tried? I did and a lot of member here rise the rear of the bike to improve handling... There's a line between too much and just enough, just need to find what's work for you.

Rocky_MTN_FZ09 · May 9, 2018

The only time I ever experienced any head shake on my 2014 FZ-09, was during hard acceleration or when on the highway passing a semi with a strong crosswind. It was not as often as the OP mentioned, not even close.

After I added a windscreen I haven't experienced any headshake since. The windscreen added just enough aerodynamic downforce to the front wheel to plant it in place at any speed.

specv510 · May 9, 2018

Definitely take it to the dealer and have them sort it out. That's not normal behavior and I'd be nervous riding it like that. Aside from what's been mentioned, it could be a loose bolt in the suspension or axles?

Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

I ran through the basics in the beginning when I felt it on the first day I got it, it didn't feel like something is loose either when riding but it does dig into my head that somethings also not right which is why in less then a month I've only riden 170 miles i usually do 3-4X that a week

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abe57 · May 9, 2018

Steering head bearings set to loose ?

Keef · May 9, 2018

I agree with marthy, mine is down 10mm at the front and up 8mm at the rear.
Because...
Headshake is caused when the front wheel is just skimming the tarmac. So you need more weight over the front end. So if you drop the front, it gets more weight on the front, amd less headshake. Try sitting closer to the tank, too.

willbs · May 9, 2018

try spamming your front brake (tap the front brake many times as quickly as you can) as you ride in a parking lot, if you feel a clicking in the handle bars, your triple tree bearing are too loose, tighten from 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock and repeat, hope this helps

1216bandit · May 9, 2018

The fz is a pretty quick handling bike out of the box. What you describe is totally unacceptable and needs to be looked over by a REPUTABLE dealer who knows what he is doing and not someone who just sells bikes and has no clue about how to fix your problem. Lowering your forks will quicken your steering, this is physics, and will likely make any problem you are experiencing worse! Lots of riders lower the forks or raise the back end to have a slow, or lazy turning bike, turn in faster or quicken the steering, and that is the LAST thing you want to do with your problem. There are any number of things that could be causing your issue, and on a new bike its not up to you to try and sort it out!

Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

I understand, I wasn't planning on touching anything like that, i know it's covered under warranty and I haven't touched anything on the front or rear end I shouldn't be allowed to touch as far as destroying my chance of warranty. I'm going to bring it down to the dealer as soon as I get out of work so that they can fix the problem and I could feel more comfortable about pushing the bike. I have a lot of mods that I bought and want to buy that I want to install that might affect the warranty but as of now I haven't installed anything like that and I don't plan on dropping my fork's.

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LouG · May 9, 2018

Part of the price for flickable steering is the slight feeling that it might go feral, but it's just a feeling. I've had weaves at speed with a strong wind from the front right quarter, testing it in different conditions saw no weave. Same thing with a wee blast to 190 k's, but it was a hint of a weave, nothing butt clenching.
I've also raised the rear ride height 9mm with no effect on stability. Mine seemed to get a bit more flighty with PR4's.
One point, a wheel alignment means aligning front and rear wheels to be in line. You can't do just one.
If head bearings, alignment of wheels and forks, etc is all good try lowering the tyre pressures to 32/36.

Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

If the dealer doesn't find a problem I will tear in, one of the guys a work with used to race hardcore in various classes for 20 something years and another has been building bikes and riding for 40 plus all my bike buddies I'm sure between them we can disassemble and reassemble the bike if need be, I'm more concerned with the dealer telling me there is no problem and I think it's just me and something happens. I've never ever in 10 years have felt squirrly on any of my bikes not even a tease of tank slap but I've seen my share of people go down from it... I don't want to experience it and I deffenitly don't want to down my first brand new bike lol

I've never been on a track but I do have some local roads that are aggressive enough to be sprinted down full throttle and lay your knee through the twisties as am sure everyone has that one local road they love. I've ridden it with the mt but super cautious and avoiding shifting over 6g so one can say I've babied her this long, if there is no problem then I don't think I could ever really crank down the throttle in that situation...

I do believe something is not right, the problem just can't be the way the bike is or no one would recommend this bike to anyone and sales would be crap... my local dealer is decent and I really hope they dig in and find the cause as I really have yet to enjoy the bike as it should be not as it is!

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1216bandit · May 9, 2018

Hopefully the dealer finds and fixes it quickly! Do keep us posted as to how this all turns out. I had a head shake/wobble turn into a tank slapper over 45 yrs ago and my sphincter still tightens up to this day when I think about it!

Forcefedboost · May 9, 2018

Lmfao! My first bike was a cbr600rr and 2 weeks into owning it i watched from 20 ft away a buddy go down at 130 from a bad slapper! T shirt a jeans, he got destroyed rashes all over and after leaving the hospital returned 2 days later into icu for bad infections! I learned 2 lessons that day...
1 always wear more gear then you expect because it hurts less then having less then you need
2 never think that everything will always be ok, sometimes when you least expect it the bull will try to get you with the horns!

6 months later I got rear ended on a near empty highway at 1am, hit and run at 70 mph! Lucky to have walked away with a few minor issues and some rash!

That s when I went from cool gear like an icon vest over my t-shirt to wearing highviz gear, full jackets, boots instead of sneakers and heavy jeans or riding pants!

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gerg · May 9, 2018

Simplest diagnostic would be to ride another 17 or 18 MT09 and see if it does the same thing, then go from there.

Of course I say simple assuming the dealer or someone you know has another bike available to ride.

Good luck sorting it out.

ridetofish · May 10, 2018

Just for giggles...what are your sag numbers?

Forcefedboost · May 10, 2018

Followed 2wheelobsessions video and I'm 9 or 10 of 14 spins out to get the correct sag for my weight, dealer sent the bike out with 7 of 14 and I didn't notice a difference in the shake either time

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Keef · May 10, 2018

Mines 42F/36R
Or it used to be- ive lost about 10kgs

Forcefedboost · May 10, 2018

Went for a spin tonight, got home late from work so no trip to the dealer, I opened her up a bit on straight flat road, she gets hairy above 100 in 5th not sure what rpm I had to get off the front felt floaty and had a bunch of front wobble probably around 110 115 i was laying on the tank full tuck....

I know that's not normal, I'm coming off a liter fireblade and not a 100th of that was felt even above 160 170. Something is very wrong.

She's staying put till I can get her out to the dealership too sketchy to keep riding this way

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Keef · May 10, 2018

And a blade has a front end weight bias, and better suspension.
Cbr has Clipons (weight forward), rearsets (weight forward) seat sloping towards the tank (weight forward)

Mt09 has dirtbike bars (weight back) relaxed pegs (weight back) fairly flat seat (weight back)

Put some weight forward (like sitting with your nuts right up against the tank), and its a beautiful bike.
I can make mine handle badly if i sit right back on the pillion seat.

detours · May 10, 2018

With your new bike, I would check the steering head, axles and tire balance. But head shake isn't caused buy just one thing.

Loose steering head bearings are the biggest cause. But wheel alignment, wheel balancing, tire pressure, uneven tire wear, loose wheel bearings can all contribute. Also road conditions can kick off a tank slapper that's waiting for an excuse to start ... like wind gusts, road grooves or uneven surfaces.

One more thing. Make sure you check and re-torque everything (and hopefully fix the head shake) before installing a steering stabilizer. They work so well they can mask a dangerous mechanical issue. You wouldn't want to lose a wheel bearing or the steering head nut at high speed or during a wheelie.

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ridetofish · May 10, 2018

This short video may be of interest to you.

Forcefedboost · May 10, 2018

Good video but I'm not sure it applies, I'm sure the bike is sagged properly, rebound and compression are also good not soft or stiff enough to be a problem. It's not my riding position or my hands putting pressure on the bar I've had it happen super light feather touching the bars and being stiff and grabbing them forcing them still... it must be a physical problem with suspension or the bikes geometry from the initial build at the factory or the uncrate build at the dealer will know more after I drop it off later on

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pattonme · May 12, 2018

unfortunately uncrating is often done by the cheapest guy in the shop. The FZ suspension damping isn't all that great - but teh 18 should be a bit better than the total FAIL the 14 was.

Set the comp adjuster all the way open. Then compare headshake tendencies with teh Reb fully closed, half and fully open. It's a Yamaha they work best when they are a little bit nose-heavy. The shock spring is a bit soft so even if you have static & rider sag within reason it'll still squat more than it should and in so doing the weight bias goes the the rear which doesn't help front wheel stability.

Keef · May 12, 2018

Again, marthy is right.
Based on my experience, do the rear first. I put the penske in first, and because the back end was supported properly, it made a massive difference to the bike. It stopped squatting under acceleration, and put more weight on the front. I have a stoltec kit and sonic springs in the front.
You dont have to go all singing, all dancing- Ben from extreme (turbo kit) creations has a ninja rear shock and gsxr valves in his stock fork cartridges.

DeepArmourMT09 · May 14, 2018

I'm also running a ninja shock on a turbo'd 09 and it's more than sufficient to keep the rear under control compared to the stock junk. The front is definitely more planted and comes up much more progressively too.

LouG said:
Way too much.

I respectfully disagree. Running the 8mm longer shock certainly improved my handling for the better (I'm running the forks at stock height in the crowns) at 6'5" and coming from a motard the extra seat height is also very welcome. If you drop the forks as low as they can go in the crowns then the extra 8mm in the rear in addition would probably be too much...

Techdad58 · Sep 25, 2018

Same here... Shakey.

I went with Michelin Pro Pilot Road 4 tires and a GPR 4 steering damper. I also changed the handle bars to the flattest Pro Taper bend I could find. I have a small windscreen as well. The steering damper made a HUGE improvement as did the tires. These tires are an amazing improvement over the stock rim covers, especially in the rain. I ride at a brisk, but not aggressive pace. Not the bike tracks well and doesn't shake passing trucks.

Headshake/wobbles all the time since new

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